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Post by Houndin on May 23, 2017 15:43:28 GMT -8
My favorite, palladium Fantasy 1e, has AR that matters. A hit is anything over 4 on a d20, if it's below or equal to the AR, the armor takes the damage. AR goes down as it takes damage as well. Anyone up for a discussion?
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Post by Probie Tim on May 23, 2017 15:58:33 GMT -8
Sure!
First: AR. Armor Resistance?
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Post by Houndin on May 23, 2017 16:18:52 GMT -8
Don't be a dork, Armor Rating.
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Post by Probie Tim on May 24, 2017 5:15:25 GMT -8
Actually, I didn't know that. I've never played Palladium. The irony of being called a dork for not knowing an RPG term is not lost on me, though, heh.
So, let's say that you have an AR of 10. You roll a 9 on a d20; it's above 4, so it hits, but it's below 10, so the armor absorbs the damage and none goes through to the PC? Or is it that armor absorbs damage up to a certain value, and whatever's left goes through to the PC?
You say that after that, the AR decreases. By how much? Is it based on the damage the armor took? Or a fixed value, eh, "per hit"?
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Post by Houndin on May 24, 2017 6:52:04 GMT -8
Armor has what's called S.D.C. or Structural Damage Capacity. In later editions that morphed into "bruise" damage for all living things, but in First Ed it was reserved for non-living things. For example:
Hard Leather Armor has an AR of 10, same as in your example, and a starting SDC of 30. A Long sword does 1d8+2 damage.
You roll a 9, roll your damage, a 7. (as a an aside, it makes sense to roll both attack and damage at the same time since you're going to almost always hit.) The armor now has an SDC rating of 23.
By the rules as written, when the armor gets down to 15 SDC (1/2 starting), the AR drops by 2, making it 8. When it drops to 10 (1/3 starting) it drops by another 2 making it 6, barely worth wearing.
Armor can be repaired either by the character, or by an armorer. SDC returned, costs and time depend on the type of armor. But, you can only get 1 AR back for getting it above 1/2 starting SDC and if you get it back to full, you only get 2 AR back if you repair it yourself. An armorer can restore it to full AR but it takes much longer and is more expensive.
Personally I prefer a more granular decrease in AR based on SDC, and reduce it by 1 when it reaches 75% and then another at 50%, then 2 more at 33%. But that's a house rule.
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Post by Probie Tim on May 24, 2017 6:55:53 GMT -8
Interesting.
I've never been one to jump on the "ugh, it slows down the system!" bandwagon, but how does all that play out? Do you find it to have a pretty smooth flow? Or is it a frequent "break" for calculations every round?
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Post by Houndin on May 24, 2017 7:05:04 GMT -8
I've not noticed any appreciable slow down. Generally people take longer to decide what to do than to do the math. Also, it's fairly simple. I have noticed that it does cause people to act more carefully in combat though. It gets expensive quick when you're constantly replacing your armor, and who wants to get stuck in a dungeon with broken armor.
Another thing I've noticed is that polearms get more use since they're stand-off weapons, and looting of enemies includes their armor now. Even minions. Also, people get creative when they fight a monster with a "Natural AR" and try to make armor pieces from it.
Natural AR is a completely different animal that doesn't really work well, I'm working on a house rule for it to bring it in-line with regular armor. The problem is that Natural AR doesn't carry an SDC rating, so... it never gets damaged and never goes down. Then you have the problem of players making leather armor from, say demon skin, and have to try to explain why it suddenly has SDC.
What I'm thinking is that the Natural AR's SDC should be equal to the monster's max possible hit points, and it degrades the same way as regular armor. But I haven't play tested it for a long time.
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Post by ayslyn on May 24, 2017 7:10:10 GMT -8
It's just another potential pool of HP, if you think about it...
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Post by Houndin on May 24, 2017 7:31:44 GMT -8
It really is, but I like the flavor it brings, and considering that all characters only get a D6 of HP every level, they really need the protection of armor. Magic is devastating, if rare, and some weapons can do 3d6+ on a hit.
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Post by Probie Tim on May 24, 2017 7:36:41 GMT -8
Palladium is classed and leveled? Or...? Then you have the problem of players making leather armor from, say demon skin, and have to try to explain why it suddenly has SDC. Well, I mean, obviously the answer is "because the demon is dead and it's demon mojo isn't coursing through it to keep the skin from breaking down!"
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Post by Houndin on May 24, 2017 7:52:55 GMT -8
It's both classed and leveled. And magic is... different. There are different types of magic user: - Wizard: can learn ANY spell from ANY level at any time. Effects are all based on the character's wizard level.
- Witch: is granted spells and abilities by making a Pact with an infernal power. Almost like a nega-paladin, they have to abide by the rules of their pact. Can only learn spells known by their power granter.
- Elementalist: Specializes in one or two traditional elements. Power is granted by Elementals. Single element specialists have more depth but less breadth.
- Diablolist: Specialist in wards and symbols. Kind of like a rune master. All "spells" have to be prepared ahead of time, but can be fired quickly, generally they are short ranged and better for building defense in layers.
- Summoner: specifically circle summoning, it's not a combat class but can bring some serious firepower along for the ride with enough wit and preparation.
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Post by akavidar on May 24, 2017 16:40:19 GMT -8
Palladium has O.C.C. Occupational Character Class. Pretty much the same as AD&D classes, plus P.C.C. for Psychics. I think there were R.C.C.'s for Racial Character Class, which were limited to certain races in the game. But it has been decades since I ran Palladium Fantasy so my brain may be rusty.
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Post by Houndin on May 24, 2017 19:13:37 GMT -8
Palladium has O.C.C. Occupational Character Class. Pretty much the same as AD&D classes, plus P.C.C. for Psychics. I think there were R.C.C.'s for Racial Character Class, which were limited to certain races in the game. But it has been decades since I ran Palladium Fantasy so my brain may be rusty. First Ed didn't have the pcc's but it did have the occ's and the rcc's but the latter were only in splat books.
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Post by The Northman on May 25, 2017 0:06:24 GMT -8
Kevin's wolfen art....
Ew.
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Post by The Northman on May 25, 2017 3:39:19 GMT -8
On a more constructed note, I was stuck in Palladium limbo for many a year in my youth, as it was the only system the only GM (who also refused to play) would run. I've revisited it more recently, and my impression that the active defense makes combat take longer than any other system has stayed put.
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