fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Jul 17, 2017 2:56:11 GMT -8
Still listening but stork is being an arse re PBTA, he starts off saying "it's too easy to succeed" then finishes with "the way it makes me fail sticks in my craw". On backstory. I'm now a backstory light kind of guy. As a player what you are doing is giving the GM a list of people I might meet, places I may end up going and situations and relationships with other players. That's it, what happens with all those is up to your fellow players and GM. Anything else you should KEEP in your head, no-one is interested.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Jul 17, 2017 4:12:54 GMT -8
Yeah, it really felt like he was mansplaining PbtA to Gina.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Jul 17, 2017 7:54:14 GMT -8
In regards to travel in Vampire, you absolutely can travel to other cities. It takes some doing but you can absolutely travel to other cities in the pursuit of your chronicle. Princes send vampires to other locations all the time. Assamites would be useless if they couldn't travel to where their food source lives. Travel just is easier if you have Ventrue ally who can get you help for long voyages or if you take a lot of red eye flights. But as is always the case making your travel known to local Princes is a must.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Jul 17, 2017 8:12:19 GMT -8
There's a thread I was recently reading that talked about that, OFTHEHILLPEOPLE. Even some pretty (well, to me) obscure stuff, like make sure you're on X model of plane, because they only have five hours of fuel onboard and won't get put into a holding pattern that lasts til sun-up - as opposed to a 777, which can be in the air for a *long* time. Travel is where the social structure of the Camarilla comes into its own. Lending out reliable transport in exchange for favors and debts is totally a thing.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 13:47:10 GMT -8
There's a thread I was recently reading that talked about that, OFTHEHILLPEOPLE . Even some pretty (well, to me) obscure stuff, like make sure you're on X model of plane, because they only have five hours of fuel onboard and won't get put into a holding pattern that lasts til sun-up - as opposed to a 777, which can be in the air for a *long* time. Travel is where the social structure of the Camarilla comes into its own. Lending out reliable transport in exchange for favors and debts is totally a thing. I found that they covered that particularly well in the original Chicago by Night. It's absolutely unsafe to leave Chicago, which is one reason why the anarchs were safe hiding out in Gary and raiding into Chicago. Between the werewolves and Sabbat who knows where, it did make Chicago kind of a city under siege pre-Under A Blood Red Moon. I think they also addressed the hoops you had to jump to fly into O'hare. You couldn't smuggle allies or things in because it was under Lodin's control, but they had a smaller airport you could risk using (Meigs, I think?) but you always ran the risk of workers forgetting to move your crate or accidentally having it opened during the day. Travelling really does fall under the right of domain for the Princes, such as having to present yourself. All ways to keep control... for the Camarilla, of course. Certainly not for the Prince's own power...
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Jul 17, 2017 13:54:20 GMT -8
'course, you could just crate yourself up, have your ghoul rent a U-haul, and have her drive you to where you wanna go, assuming you don't need to cross oceans to get there.
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TheGerkuman
Apprentice Douchebag
Why you no problem make
Posts: 76
Preferred Game Systems: Any variety of D&D or WFRP 2e.
Currently Playing: Anything I can find
Currently Running: I haven't run in a long time. Either sort.
Favorite Species of Monkey: Capuchin or Spider.
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Post by TheGerkuman on Jul 18, 2017 1:51:18 GMT -8
While I agree with the team that you can have your first time GMing at the same time as your friends have their first time playing, I don't think that it's a bad thing to want to play in someone else's game first. I think that may have solved some of the writer's issues, since their experience of being a PC would have helped guide their experience instead of going in completely cold.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Jul 18, 2017 2:28:34 GMT -8
I remember very clearly the excitement of buying my first boxed edition of D&D (the GW version eqv. I think to Holmes Blue Book), and getting my best Fretin's to come round and play ... and our absolute bafflement at how to apply the rules.
There was in particular a thing I recall, about gathering your party together by posting a note in a tavern. You what? We wanted to play today! Not when people replied to our ad....
Long story short, we didn't play. When I at last got to play it was with people who had not much more experience than me (this was 1978, no-one in the U.K. had much experience) but they had a bit, enough to know that posting notices in taverns was just fluff. And yes we all learned together really.
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TheGerkuman
Apprentice Douchebag
Why you no problem make
Posts: 76
Preferred Game Systems: Any variety of D&D or WFRP 2e.
Currently Playing: Anything I can find
Currently Running: I haven't run in a long time. Either sort.
Favorite Species of Monkey: Capuchin or Spider.
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Post by TheGerkuman on Jul 18, 2017 2:35:01 GMT -8
In regards to Stork's point about exploiting narrative games, a lot of the narrative elements are set in place before any actions happen. If the plain is geologically active with a rift you'd probably want to say that before the swords come out, or the GM's gonna think you're taking the piss.
Also the GM is allowed to say no, or to set a ridiculous level of success if you try and do something ridiculously unlikely.
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TheGerkuman
Apprentice Douchebag
Why you no problem make
Posts: 76
Preferred Game Systems: Any variety of D&D or WFRP 2e.
Currently Playing: Anything I can find
Currently Running: I haven't run in a long time. Either sort.
Favorite Species of Monkey: Capuchin or Spider.
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Post by TheGerkuman on Jul 18, 2017 3:40:00 GMT -8
Also, I really liked the song this week. Very Gentle Giant-esque.
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Post by joecrak on Jul 18, 2017 5:03:35 GMT -8
stork doing his devil's advocate thing, or in this episodes case, trolling, seems to have mixed success. Almost like he rolled a 7-9. It's also amusing how much he talks about loving what failure in rpgs can lead to, but claiming he doesn't seem to enjoy how 'failures' in PbtA work, when they work exactly like what he is describing he loves! Like, tell me the story of how you failed but managed to hold off the enemies in a self sacrifice? Well, in a typical d20 game, that doesn't sound like a failure or miss at all. It sounds like a series of successful rolls to prevent the enemies from getting past you, while at the same time, the enemies keep succeeding at hitting you. Fictionally, that's cool, realistically that's a lot of time spent rolling dice back and forth. If you love that, that's great! If you aren't involved in that combat, I hope the gm is still switching back and forth so you aren't just sitting there watching. Also, I didn't love the moment where he started commenting on gina 's superhero idea. Felt like it created a weird mood. It's a fun idea, and it also seems like you are both coming from different super hero game backgrounds. I'm guessing, Gina is coming from Masks, where the powers have no mechanics them. Stork is likely coming from a different system, where the mechanics of the powers matter more. In storks pov, that could possibly cause a headache for gms. In Gina's, it wouldn't, and I can even see how the gm could throw some hard moves at her if she starts abusing her powers, or they overload and affect everyone around her.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Jul 18, 2017 5:06:53 GMT -8
Yeah. I saw Gina as describing the "fluff" to a psionic attack, nothing more.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 15:01:35 GMT -8
In regards to Stork's point about exploiting narrative games, a lot of the narrative elements are set in place before any actions happen. If the plain is geologically active with a rift you'd probably want to say that before the swords come out, or the GM's gonna think you're taking the piss. Also the GM is allowed to say no, or to set a ridiculous level of success if you try and do something ridiculously unlikely. I agree. To me, players trying to find an advantage to try to exploit to me seems like at least they're involved in the world. And with narrative, especially. I'm reminded of Amber Diceless talking about that, and using the example of Corwin winning and him saying 'If I hadn't been able to manuever him so he was facing the sun, I don't know if I could have taken him.' I think the thing too is, generally, we game with friends or people we know. We know if Player X at the table is a min-maxer or 'habitual linecrosser' - there's some give and take. But if you have a player who's always dragging on combat beyond a reasonable amount looking for something to exploit - 'Oh, I make it so there's a rift here on the plains because the rules say I can discover some new terrain we never discussed' seems like a good example - eventually it seems like that person may stop getting invited. Same with the person who won't let a ruling drop without a two hour argument. Easier said than done with friends, of course, but you decide your price of admission. I'm reminded of a time a friend and I went to check out a new game. We'd just made new characters (D&D 3.0) and were ready to go. We're travelling, and the party (like level 3 PCs) were attacked by NINE hill giants. My friend and I just looked at each other and knew we wouldn't be coming back. The other PCs just charged straight into melee... Anyway, I love the discussion on the podcast and generally find Stork's friendly-contrarian nature helps ramp up and hone discussions generally.
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Post by RudeAlert on Jul 18, 2017 16:49:45 GMT -8
Still listening but stork is being an arse re PBTA, he starts off saying "it's too easy to succeed" then finishes with "the way it makes me fail sticks in my craw". Yeah, I haven't been subtle about my intense dislike for PBTA games in the recent past but I feel like my hatred for it is based on what it does and how it does it, and the fact that that is exactly NOT how I want to play RPGs. The feeling I'm getting from Stork when he talks about PBTA games is that he doesn't actually "get" the system but really doesn't like what he THINKS it's like, so he keeps hammering on his perception of what the game is rather than the game itself. At least that's the impression I'm getting. And keep in mind, this is from someone who deeply hates that system.
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Jul 18, 2017 19:41:22 GMT -8
I'm guessing that HyveMynd would normally say something about stork not playing PbtA but having unsourced opinions. But I'm guessing that hyve has mentioned it too many times, and has given up. And that's my comment on stork's PbtA analysis.
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