psimonsays
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 18
Preferred Game Systems: Just About Anything
Currently Running: Savage Rifts
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Post by psimonsays on Jul 22, 2017 6:46:51 GMT -8
One of my players in my Savage Rifts game asked me if ablative armor would be something we could house rule for our game. So we hashed out a system where any damage die that exploded reduced the Armor value by one (multiple aces on the same die still only result in a single deduction). Repair cost was pegged at 1% of the base price of the armor. The player stated that the purpose was to attempt to inject some caution about combat for some of the more heavily armored characters. My group is on a long term mapping expedition and is not due back to the Castle for 3 months, any repairs and ammo are on them for the duration. We will give this a shot for a few session and see how it pans out.
Does anyone out there have any experience with how this works in a play balance aspect? Is it too much of a hindrance? Comments and advise are appreciated.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Jul 24, 2017 7:26:28 GMT -8
I think there was some rules for this in the older editions but I could be wrong. Either way it was dropped. But it would certainly make getting into combat a lot more dangerous.
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thebustinchops
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 3
Currently Playing: Savage Rifts
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Post by thebustinchops on Jul 26, 2017 7:01:10 GMT -8
Personally, I'm of the school of thought that the less details tracked leads to a more enjoyable and story-rich game. However, I can understand the draw that comes to the details.
Using a system like this can lead to some potentially interesting plot points such as needing to scavenge for parts and tools or giving the PCs a reason to find some sort of settlement for artisans to do the work for them. As a GM, that can give you some ammunition even if it is just getting the PCs to a town to interact with other story hooks.
Mechanically, the issue I have with this is placing a static detriment on a variable as finicky as dice rolls. It's inevitable that there will be that one game session where the party's dice are super cold, but the GM's dice are spitting fire. Armor (read as survivability) and funds could be depleted in one really bad session.
In Savage Rifts, balanced encounters seem to come from hordes of Extras to soften up and expend PC resources before they run into the meat and potatoes that are Wild Card opponents. These hordes of Extras mean an increase in frequency of dice rolls. This increased frequency turns into a greater chance of chipping away at that armor's durability over the course of an encounter.
Another potential outcome is a shift in the game system's meta at your table. With armor degradation, it devalues the Armor stat and increases the value of Parry and base Toughness. You may find players front-loading their defense to Parry to counter this. Unfortunately, not all frameworks can do this which could potentially single PC frameworks out.
Now, that probably looks like I'm bashing the idea, but I assure you that I'm not. The issue I have with Savage Rifts is that PCs are damn near unstoppable at times. This sort of armor system could very much challenge that which is a good potential reality check for the PCs, but I'd like to offer another option or two or three...
1) Critical Failures - Rolling snake eyes can have all kinds of excellent setbacks. Maybe a misfire from a Robot Armor weapon system causes that limb/mounting point/etc. to be a lower armored weak point for called shots. It can stay this way until repaired.
2) Damage Raises - Savage Rifts can put out some really scary damage rolls. Maybe there is a situational threshold of number of raises on damage that would yield degradation of armor. This could happen even if the wounds themselves are soaked via Bennies. I have mixed feelings on this idea as this could still effectively be translated to the exploding dice method since many crazy damage raises are directly associated with acing dice.
3) Special Setting Rule - I'm currently struggling to find it, but there is a setting rule I read somewhere that made it so you wouldn't have to track ammo. I think it was something to the effect of rolling a die at the end of an encounter. On the result of a "1" your ammo stores are nearing depletion. It then turns into a plot point to acquire more. This could be modified to armor. Maybe they suffer an armor penalty until they come up with a way to fix their equipment.
These are just a few ideas to hopefully add to the conversation.
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thebustinchops
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 3
Currently Playing: Savage Rifts
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Post by thebustinchops on Jul 26, 2017 7:44:43 GMT -8
3) Special Setting Rule - I'm currently struggling to find it, but there is a setting rule I read somewhere that made it so you wouldn't have to track ammo. I think it was something to the effect of rolling a die at the end of an encounter. On the result of a "1" your ammo stores are nearing depletion. It then turns into a plot point to acquire more. This could be modified to armor. Maybe they suffer an armor penalty until they come up with a way to fix their equipment. Alas, I found it! In the Science Fiction Companion on Page 13, there is a Cinematic Ammo tracking option that basically has players only track specific things like bombs, missiles, grenades, etc. Lasers are assumed to recharge constantly, but ballistic weapons are the catch. After each engagement you draw a card. If it is a 5 or lower, the group is low on ammo meaning they effectively have one more fight left before they are tapped. Personally, I think I'd go with a die table for armor applications. Maybe after an encounter, each PC that suffered or soaked a wound rolls 2d6 against it. The table would have varying degrees of penalty ranging from being completely unwearable, to having called shot weak points, reduced pace, static armor value reductions, to no issue at all. The different penalties could have varying repair requirements as well. You'd likely want to ensure that the actual penalty results are rarer than the unaffected results to keep this from being overly tedious.
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psimonsays
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 18
Preferred Game Systems: Just About Anything
Currently Running: Savage Rifts
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Post by psimonsays on Jul 26, 2017 9:01:20 GMT -8
Thanks for the comments. I get what you are saying and in a throwaway test the situation you described occurred. The poor slob in Huntsman armor ended the session with only 1 armor point remaining.
Given that test, I would lean toward your last suggestion of the die roll table every time a wound is inflicted in a battle. Only one roll per battle (possibly with a modifier for the number of times a wounding roll was made). I will ruminate on this and put together a table test it out, and post some results here when that occurs.
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thebustinchops
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 3
Currently Playing: Savage Rifts
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Post by thebustinchops on Jul 26, 2017 9:45:32 GMT -8
Excellent! I look forward to hearing the details on how your solution turns out.
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psimonsays
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 18
Preferred Game Systems: Just About Anything
Currently Running: Savage Rifts
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Post by psimonsays on Aug 6, 2017 9:41:04 GMT -8
Ablative Armor Rules (House Rule Trial)
At the end of each battle where a character suffered a wounding roll (regardless of soak results) the player will roll 2d6. For each wounding roll beyond the first add 1 to the Result. Note that number of wounds inflicted is irrelevant. Unless a natural 2 is rolled Bennies can be used on this roll. Consult the following table.
Natural 2 – The armor has been rendered useless until repaired. Materials and repair costs for non powered armor are equal to 10% of the base cost. Cost for Powered armor are equal to 1% of base cost.
3 – The Armor value of the suit is reduced by 25% until repaired. For powered armor a -1 penalty to all pilot skills is also imposed. Base cost of Repairs is 5% for non powered suits, but special materials may be required. 1% cost for Powered Suits, materials may not be available except in fully equipped garages.
4 – The Armor value of the suit is reduced by 50% until repaired. Environmentally sealed armor no longer provides protection. For Powered armor a -2 Penalty to all pilot skills rolls is imposed and if the armor provides a pace bonus that is reduced by 25%. Base Cost of Repairs is 5% for non powered suits and suitable materials may not be available except in fully equipped Garages. Powered Armor suits still require 1% but repairs are only available in very select locations.
5-9 – No additional Effect
10 – The Armor value of the suit is reduced by 25% until repaired. For powered armor a -1 penalty to all pilot skills is also imposed. Base cost of Repairs is 5% for non powered suits, but special materials may be required. 1% cost for Powered Suits, materials may not be available except in fully equipped garages.
11 - The Armor value of the suit is reduced by 50% until repaired. Environmentally sealed armor no longer provides protection. For Powered armor a -2 Penalty to all pilot skills rolls is imposed and if the armor provides a pace bonus that is reduced by 25%. Base Cost of Repairs is 5% for non powered suits and suitable materials may not be available except in fully equipped Garages. Powered Armor suits still require 1% but repairs are only available in very select locations.
12 – The armor has been rendered useless until repaired. Materials and repair costs for non powered armor are equal to 10% of the base cost. Cost for Powered armor are equal to 1% of base cost.
13 + As 12 Above but the Toughness bonus (if any) of the armor is permanently reduced by 1.
I used this table for several gaming sessions. Three major combats later and I am pleased with the results. The MARS power armor pilot is now a lot more hesitant in his "I blast them" behavior. It also led to the group being forced to sidetrack to a facility that could perform some repairs. They also had to scrounge for parts. Good idea. I will continue to use this.
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