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Post by RudeAlert on Sept 26, 2017 10:09:21 GMT -8
Sorry guys, can we focus on the more important factor of this episode? Stu is on a lot of dating apps except grindr (he claims) Ladies and Gentlemen, the race is on. Ohmygod! It's gonna be like "It's a mad mad mad mad world" only with an even less rewarding outcome.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 10:10:08 GMT -8
All the talk of GLOW lately, I highly recommend Southpaw Regional Wrestling. It's supposedly a recovered tape of a wrestling company from 1987, but it's all the regular WWE wrestlers playing these characters and F-list wrestlers... John Cena's great as the bland host, and Chris Jericho as the Mean Gene character... great stuff. youtu.be/P4RFCRpp9P0
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Post by lowkeyoh on Sept 26, 2017 12:42:43 GMT -8
The points raised on stealing player ideas I think can be generalized to any form of Player involvement in the fiction. It's always a good idea if it's better than what you have, however you gotta have something.
If Detective Blue get's shot and killed with a gun and there are three suspects and no clues and you're just waiting for someone to investigate someone and then that's your killer; well then that's probably going to be a boring story. If you have Detective Blue get killed, plant a bunch of clues pointing to several suspects but have one in your mind as the killer and THEN the players deduce that it's someone else, then by all means make the switch.
As long as it fits the narrative and is a more engaging story, make the swap. But you can't rely on your players to provide plot clues just as you can't rely on your players to flush out the details of your world. There was a conversation a season ago about prompting your players to give lore and names to the geography to your world. Again, this is a good way to build investment but you can't rely solely on their input.
Tell the best story that you can. Build the most complete world you can. Always be open to better idea when they present themselves, in game or out of game.
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Post by joecrak on Sept 26, 2017 14:05:15 GMT -8
Not a minute in and everyone's talking about GLOW, and gina brings up World Wide Wrestling. I want stories of said game! I also long for some of the hosts to play and record an episode, but pipe dreams and all that. Totes agree that this should happen, really. Well....if ya'll ever need a remote GM that's 3 hours ahead of you....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 15:54:51 GMT -8
If Detective Blue get's shot and killed with a gun and there are three suspects and no clues and you're just waiting for someone to investigate someone and then that's your killer; well then that's probably going to be a boring story. If you have Detective Blue get killed, plant a bunch of clues pointing to several suspects but have one in your mind as the killer and THEN the players deduce that it's someone else, then by all means make the switch. Tell the best story that you can. Build the most complete world you can. Always be open to better idea when they present themselves, in game or out of game. Know what this reminds me of? The movie Clue, for one thing, with all the endings 'This is how it could have happened'. If you're going to have multiple suspects, I think you need to fill it out with "If Professor Plum did it, this is how he did it." And you have to Chekov's Gun all of the clues. In that way, you can end up with the murderer as whoever they piece it together as, and all the clues will be there. Going back to what I remember of the Doctor Douche ("It's pronounced 'Doo-shay!") -- a supergenius will and should always have an out. I liked the idea someone floated about the envelopes with his escape plans. I think a supergenius villain is difficult because I feel there should be a level of GM 'cheating' - ie adapting plans to what the players are planning. I liken it to being like the RDJ Sherlock Holmes, time slows down as he processes all the variables needed for his escape. Or if he surrenders? How would Ledger's Joker's plan have issues if he doesn't allow himself to get captured? If the PCs kill the villain, there's other stories - the infamous Doombots (Douchebots? Sounds... wrong)... a clone... let him 'stay dead' and return later... have someone come for revenge (Who knew that his brother was a superhero?). A recurring nemesis from a friend's D&D games was a ettin Hooded Pupil. The damnable thing got away from us, fair and square, more often than I care to admit, with no GM fudging. The last time, we were not prepared for him to use his spider climb ability from his template to escape. He put up a good fight but had no illusions about sticking around. #rambley
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Post by chronovore on Sept 26, 2017 16:09:13 GMT -8
stu remember that when you play Warhammer it doesn't matter if your miniatures die as long as they kill more points than they are worth. But the "let the players decide who did it" advice is in my opinion bad, you shouldn't have decided HOW they find out the story but the story is one of the points of the game. Take inspiration and use the players ideas for things not yet decided but don't cheat the players by handwaving things you have planed. You might get a better story if the players are wrong at times and you can in stead of changing the story just give more clues if needed. Yeah, but this is also perilously close to the "quantum ogre" question, which I also think of the "how many shovel whacks does it take to get to the center of the dead horse?" question. And AGAIN, you're using the extremely judgy phrase "cheat the players," when it's simply one style of GMing with which you don't agree. So can we leave off the finger-pointing?
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fredrix
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Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
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Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Sept 26, 2017 21:02:47 GMT -8
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Post by fredrix on Sept 26, 2017 21:02:47 GMT -8
In contrast, I'm playing FATE right now, so the paradigm is reversed. As another Happyjacker put it, instead of rules driving the narrative, the narrative influences the rules. So now one of my players might say, "As I'm 'the last of a proud line of chandelier testers,' I take this opportunity to swing from the amazingly well-hung chandelier." You are absolutly right, and Fate has core mechanics that support this narrative led action - not just Fate point spend, but "create an advantage" actions. So if a player told me he was swinging on a chandelier I would (after likening him my "disappointed face" for being uncool (see point 1. above)) say "so you a creating an advantage, let's roll first to see how that swing goes".
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Post by chronovore on Sept 26, 2017 23:38:57 GMT -8
In contrast, I'm playing FATE right now, so the paradigm is reversed. As another Happyjacker put it, instead of rules driving the narrative, the narrative influences the rules. So now one of my players might say, "As I'm 'the last of a proud line of chandelier testers,' I take this opportunity to swing from the amazingly well-hung chandelier." You are absolutly right, and Fate has core mechanics that support this narrative led action - not just Fate point spend, but "create an advantage" actions. So if a player told me he was swinging on a chandelier I would (after likening him my "disappointed face" for being uncool (see point 1. above)) say "so you a creating an advantage, let's roll first to see how that swing goes". FREDRIX HATES TRAPEZE ARTISTS!
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
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Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Sept 27, 2017 3:18:04 GMT -8
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Post by fredrix on Sept 27, 2017 3:18:04 GMT -8
FREDRIX HATES TRAPEZE ARTISTS! Trapeze artists are alright. On their trapeze. Jugglers on the other hand, they are SCUM. I hatez jugglers!
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Post by Linus on Sept 27, 2017 15:01:16 GMT -8
[...] you guys asked me to tell how the [...] murder fantasy mystery went, even though I never got the advice until two-ish months afterward [...] Whoa, why's this guy writing in about murder fantasies, and why do you give him advice on it?!
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Post by joecrak on Sept 27, 2017 18:16:25 GMT -8
In contrast, I'm playing FATE right now, so the paradigm is reversed. As another Happyjacker put it, instead of rules driving the narrative, the narrative influences the rules. So now one of my players might say, "As I'm 'the last of a proud line of chandelier testers,' I take this opportunity to swing from the amazingly well-hung chandelier." You are absolutly right, and Fate has core mechanics that support this narrative led action - not just Fate point spend, but "create an advantage" actions. So if a player told me he was swinging on a chandelier I would (after likening him my "disappointed face" for being uncool (see point 1. above)) say "so you a creating an advantage, let's roll first to see how that swing goes". How is that creating an advantage though? The player gets to state what they are trying to gain before they roll. Just swinging from a chandelier, like a super cool awesome swashbuckler, isn't much of an action in and of itself. If they had a stunt related to chandelier swinging, then I could see it. Like if they were trying to crash the chandelier down upon some mooks, then it could be an attack, if trying to cause stress, or an advantage if merely trying to ensnare a bunch of them, or pin them down. But merely swinging from something, that's just fun fluff.
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fredrix
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Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Sept 27, 2017 20:42:48 GMT -8
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Post by fredrix on Sept 27, 2017 20:42:48 GMT -8
How is that creating an advantage though? I am inclined to agree But actually if you look at the movies in which it happens, the characters often use the chandelier to change position, taking a shortcut from one balcony to another to surprise a bunch of mooks, or dropping down on the villain from above, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 23:23:50 GMT -8
I suppose it depends on the dynamics of the fight, I could see them creating an aspect along the lines "leaping attack" etc. It would disappear immediately after use so would function more like a boost but it fits. If I were building an acrobatic character I'd try and include some sort of stunt that allowed me to create it and attack in the same turn to keep the rapid action going.
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Post by chronovore on Sept 28, 2017 1:23:48 GMT -8
But what about jugglers? How can they create an advantage?
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Sept 28, 2017 3:24:50 GMT -8
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Post by fredrix on Sept 28, 2017 3:24:50 GMT -8
But what about jugglers? How can they create an advantage? It's not a fighting technique. It's for seduction. The bastards.
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