Making sense of combat in V20
Oct 16, 2017 15:08:37 GMT -8
Post by Linus on Oct 16, 2017 15:08:37 GMT -8
I started a new thread instead of continuing on my previous thread on houseruling the initiative in combat, since I thought it might be wise to break down what is actually written (at least in the 20th anniversary edition) and keep it separate from discussing any potential hacks. There's a fair bit of confusion around this - some due to differences in earlier editions and some due to the system having an unusual approach to abjudicating each turn. I'll be dissecting the rules as written in V20, p. 271 and onward:
First off, what the hell is up with declaring your actions in written form? Well you don't need to write it down, but you do declare your action in reverse initiative order. Why reverse?! The answer lies in how the whole turn is acted out. Combat is divided into three parts:
Take special note of part 2 and 3 there. You don't roll for your attack, and then for damage. You roll for attack, make a note of the level of success and move on to the next player. Only after every action of every character has been taken do you roll for damage, to see if the chaotic flurry of actions leave your character unscathed, wounded or a wet spot on the wall.
This is not only an unusual take on the formula, it also makes the order of initiative pointless - no matter who gets to act first, all participants gets to act, and damage is applied en masse in the end of the turn. (That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I'll leave that discussion for the other thread.) V20 ask you instead to declare your actions in reverse order of initiative, giving the faster character the benefit of reacting and adapting to previous declarations.
In practice, you can't preemptively incapacitate the mage before he can set off his fireball spell. Your attack will connect at the same time as the aforementioned fireball, and you will each suffer the damage. Next turn, however, the mage might prove to be a mere hedgewizard after all, crippled by a fist-shaped indent in his sternum; while you stand singed sans eyebrows, yet ready for more.
Ok, so do I get to dodge or not? Short answer: no. Long answer, albeit with bullet-points:
The last point is the crucial one here. Usually, the character with low initiative have declared an action and find it to be disadvantageous as dice has started to hit the table. Our mage from the example above might find that casting a fireball doesn't look so good now that a flurry of tooth and claw is coming their way - "Wow, that's a lot of successes, that will be one brutal damage pool later on... you know what? I think I'l try to dodge that instead" - and opt to abort their declared action by either spending a Willpower point, or make a Willpower roll against diff 6. You do not need to make both. You may only abort actions into a defensive maneuver.
Remember, the effect of all actions happen at the end of the turn. It is often damage, but it might be other narrative consequences, especially when you take combat maneuvers (p. 275 and onward) into consideration. If you succesfully disarm your opponent, they will still have used that weapon during that turn if that was what they declared. As you cannot preemptively incapacitate an opponent before they act, you cannot preemptively change the circumstances before they act. (That also means you cannot Hold, Tackle or Clinch/Clench your opponent and Bite them within the same turn, even if you split your dice pool or have extra celerity-actions.) As before, the opponent suffer the consequences first at the end of the turn, after all declared actions have been resolved.
(Ok, that's it, I think. I might have used "turn" and "round" interchangeably. The terms should refer to one full run-through of declarared actions, resolved actions and resolved consequences.)
First off, what the hell is up with declaring your actions in written form? Well you don't need to write it down, but you do declare your action in reverse initiative order. Why reverse?! The answer lies in how the whole turn is acted out. Combat is divided into three parts:
- Declare your action(s) in reverse initiative order
- Resolve ALL declared actions
- Resolve the effect of ALL actions taken
Take special note of part 2 and 3 there. You don't roll for your attack, and then for damage. You roll for attack, make a note of the level of success and move on to the next player. Only after every action of every character has been taken do you roll for damage, to see if the chaotic flurry of actions leave your character unscathed, wounded or a wet spot on the wall.
This is not only an unusual take on the formula, it also makes the order of initiative pointless - no matter who gets to act first, all participants gets to act, and damage is applied en masse in the end of the turn. (That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I'll leave that discussion for the other thread.) V20 ask you instead to declare your actions in reverse order of initiative, giving the faster character the benefit of reacting and adapting to previous declarations.
In practice, you can't preemptively incapacitate the mage before he can set off his fireball spell. Your attack will connect at the same time as the aforementioned fireball, and you will each suffer the damage. Next turn, however, the mage might prove to be a mere hedgewizard after all, crippled by a fist-shaped indent in his sternum; while you stand singed sans eyebrows, yet ready for more.
Ok, so do I get to dodge or not? Short answer: no. Long answer, albeit with bullet-points:
- Everybody gets one action per turn.
- You may split this action into multiple actions, as defined on p. 248.
- Characters with celerity may take additional actions by spending blood. This must be declared at the beginning of the turn. Celerity-actions may not be split into multiple actions.
- When declaring actions, you may opt to perform a defensive maneuer.
- When resolving actions, you may opt to forego your declared action in favour of a defensive maneuver.
The last point is the crucial one here. Usually, the character with low initiative have declared an action and find it to be disadvantageous as dice has started to hit the table. Our mage from the example above might find that casting a fireball doesn't look so good now that a flurry of tooth and claw is coming their way - "Wow, that's a lot of successes, that will be one brutal damage pool later on... you know what? I think I'l try to dodge that instead" - and opt to abort their declared action by either spending a Willpower point, or make a Willpower roll against diff 6. You do not need to make both. You may only abort actions into a defensive maneuver.
Remember, the effect of all actions happen at the end of the turn. It is often damage, but it might be other narrative consequences, especially when you take combat maneuvers (p. 275 and onward) into consideration. If you succesfully disarm your opponent, they will still have used that weapon during that turn if that was what they declared. As you cannot preemptively incapacitate an opponent before they act, you cannot preemptively change the circumstances before they act. (That also means you cannot Hold, Tackle or Clinch/Clench your opponent and Bite them within the same turn, even if you split your dice pool or have extra celerity-actions.) As before, the opponent suffer the consequences first at the end of the turn, after all declared actions have been resolved.
(Ok, that's it, I think. I might have used "turn" and "round" interchangeably. The terms should refer to one full run-through of declarared actions, resolved actions and resolved consequences.)