fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on May 5, 2018 1:45:04 GMT -8
Still listening, but oh what fun to listen to Americans get confused about Warhammer. (Except Tappy, he knows his shit - I used to have a Squat 40k Army, and the game is dead to me until the race returns)
Some answers to your questions:
Ulysses America is a subsidiary of Ulysses Spiel, which publishes German language versions of ... pretty much everything.
Rick Priestly is (I believe) the man originally responsible for the grimdark worlds of WH
Warhammer actually started out as a role playing game, with figures. Quickly morphed into a fantasy battles game. Then spun off into the first edition WHFP. Rogue Trader was an advertised Sci-fi RPG spin-off of the first Warhammer, that never appeared because of the change to fantasy battles. Finally coming to light as a 40k RPG spin-off from FFG.
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tappy
Journeyman Douchebag
Host
Posts: 192
Preferred Game Systems: Apoc World, Monsterhearts, L5r, Wod
Favorite Species of Monkey: Space Monkey
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Post by tappy on May 5, 2018 14:07:01 GMT -8
I started playing just as 3rd edition began, and the many salty tears of squat players was burned into my mind. GOOD NEWS THOUGH! Squats are officially back in canon. In the new Necromunda there is a Squat Bounty Hunter! Squats probably won't come back as biker gangs in space, but officially homo sapiens rotundus rides again!
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Post by chronovore on May 7, 2018 7:00:17 GMT -8
TAINTing the player experience - FWIW, I'd only ever heard "choad" to mean a dick, and The Google seems to support this interpretation. I've never heard the perineum referred to as "choad." But I'd never heard the term "gooch" and a quick google quickly supports it as a synonym of "taint," so what do I know?
Takeaway quote of the episode: "Success isn't measured in die rolls, it's measured in how you handle the aftermath of whatever the roll is." HEAR, HEAR!
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on May 7, 2018 11:11:06 GMT -8
Stu Venable regarding reviews, I am currently pushing Podchaser as the place to go to find my podcast. People can not only review the ‘cast as a whole (without giving Apple your credit card), they can also review individual episodes. It’s a new service, in beta but pretty robust. Can’t see how they plan to monetise it. Happy Jacks main feed and AP feed are already listed, but you can take control if the listing. PS everyone, if you listen to The Coriolis Effect, rate us here!
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mrcj
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 173
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Post by mrcj on May 7, 2018 12:17:37 GMT -8
OK so this is a post that will maybe make people angry.
Ben from Texas put the game back on track by asking a “meta-gaming” question is a hero. You are a hero sir and a genius, for three reasons: there is meta and there is meta, there is the game then there is the game, and there is the sandbox and then there is the sandbox.
There is meta and there is meta. Ben got a lot of stick for meta-gaming. First, please let’s not get bent out of shape about meta-gaming. Depending on your definition nearly 20% of what goes on in a regular Happy Jacks AP could be called meta-gaming. Not to get bogged down in definitions but what Ben did was push the game forward with a direct question. Thespians like to navel gaze until spontaneously something happens because their characters stopped pointlessly arguing. But if you have players who like to get things done, players who like to kick the can down the road, nothing can be more boring than one player holding everyone back because they are “doing what their character would do,” which is fine unless their character is a douche (I think I have a rant somewhere else about thespians, see that for the full press).
It sounds, because in the letter said these players got into chases there was lots of action, that the players had a great time. The players ran through the plot as opposed to argue. if that is the case, then Ben read his players right and asked the correct question. The player could answer one way or another. He answered correctly then boom! Action! My hat is off to the player as well.
There is the game then there is the game. Hey, we are going to do this game and four players are in and one player is out. GMs have options, Ben took the direct route. If the game is the heist, and one player is a hold out, the game is still about the heist for the other four players. A GM can try to manipulate the situation, like Stu suggested by upping the ante: the situation (the heist) can affect the character’s loved ones or property. If doing what Ben did is railroad, then so is what Stu said, only in the guise of in-game manipulation. At its root it is the same thing really. Which way would you want to go, “What is the most interesting choice?” or “The bad guy kidnapped your sister. Now do you want to go?” I prefer Ben’s solution.
My assumption is that if the player decided to not to go the heist route, there would be no specific in-game consequences. There would just be other things that happen. But if you go Stu’s route of upping the ante, there are.
There is the sandbox and there is the sandbox. I love open sand boxes I like playing in them and GMing them. Making characters with interesting goals and self-motivation is totally fun and a lot of what I hear on Happy Jack’s APs.
There is also a sandbox game where there is a task, a central task that the game is built around. In these games there is a beginning point and maybe a vague endpoint or multiple endpoints and how the players get from the beginning point to some kind of end point is the journey/game. I have run many of these types of games and it sounds like ben set up his players to know the exact type of game they were going to do.
I think Kimi assumes that in a sandbox whatever the players do is great. If the players know that the game is about a heist. I, as a GM, don’t assume that whatever the player does is great. If I st up a heist game and I have three players who want to do a heist and Player A wants to enter a hotdog eating contest. If Player A is a thespian, and if he sticks to his guns because his character is "really into hotdogs," then Player A is a dick. Ben’s player is not a dick and Ben is a hero for getting straight to the point.
So Ben, you did great. If it happens again do not hesitate to do it again. You are right. It is not a cry for help or a pitiful wimp out. It is a shining example of being a great DM.
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willh
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 220
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Post by willh on May 8, 2018 8:43:17 GMT -8
OK so this is a post that will maybe make people angry. Ben from Texas put the game back on track by asking a “meta-gaming” question is a hero. .... So Ben, you did great. If it happens again do not hesitate to do it again. You are right. It is not a cry for help or a pitiful wimp out. It is a shining example of being a great DM. Well said
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on May 8, 2018 10:40:51 GMT -8
My idea for that legacy game: Make the former characters the new bad guys. They went into the Warp at a really bad time, no way they don't pop out later as agents of Chaos.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2018 12:06:52 GMT -8
My idea for that legacy game: Make the former characters the new bad guys. They went into the Warp at a really bad time, no way they don't pop out later as agents of Chaos. Either that or just build up loads of legends about what happened to them. One of the things I loved about the setting was how much was just unknown or contradictory, especially about the Horus heresy prior to all the books.
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Post by vyrrk on May 9, 2018 12:20:45 GMT -8
Soooo... I feel EVERYTHING we do as players and GM's is META. We make choices all the time that are for the fiction. Hell its a major part of what PBTA talks about. I WANT my players to make their choices based on the best story. I want that meta. I play these games to have fun and have awesome stories happen.
I think if we took a pole, most players would have made choices that would be more fun to the story as opposed to what was exactly what your character would do. I don't think its bad a GM reminded a player about that.
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worldseye
Initiate Douchebag
So many systems, so little time.
Posts: 29
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Post by worldseye on May 9, 2018 17:21:11 GMT -8
legacy game: i’ve never tried using microscope to create a setting for a campaign, but many have, and this seems like the perfect opportunity to get the entire table to fill in some of the blanks and set up the next chapter. also: ...FWIW, I'd only ever heard "choad" to mean a dick, and The Google seems to support this interpretation. I've never heard the perineum referred to as "choad..." agreed, and i can certify that taint=perineum on the east coast as well, at least in maryland
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20pints
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 19
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Post by 20pints on May 9, 2018 18:15:33 GMT -8
As I understand Warhammer took its general fantasy premise of corrupt governments, shadowy chaos conspiracy, inevitable doom of the world, and its outsider, scrappy heroes from the Thatcher years and the punk scene. I may just be reading too much into that....
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Post by ericfromnj on May 10, 2018 3:26:05 GMT -8
OK so this is a post that will maybe make people angry. Ben from Texas put the game back on track by asking a “meta-gaming” question is a hero. You are a hero sir and a genius, for three reasons: there is meta and there is meta, there is the game then there is the game, and there is the sandbox and then there is the sandbox. There is meta and there is meta. Ben got a lot of stick for meta-gaming. First, please let’s not get bent out of shape about meta-gaming. Depending on your definition nearly 20% of what goes on in a regular Happy Jacks AP could be called meta-gaming. Not to get bogged down in definitions but what Ben did was push the game forward with a direct question. Thespians like to navel gaze until spontaneously something happens because their characters stopped pointlessly arguing. But if you have players who like to get things done, players who like to kick the can down the road, nothing can be more boring than one player holding everyone back because they are “doing what their character would do,” which is fine unless their character is a douche (I think I have a rant somewhere else about thespians, see that for the full press). It sounds, because in the letter said these players got into chases there was lots of action, that the players had a great time. The players ran through the plot as opposed to argue. if that is the case, then Ben read his players right and asked the correct question. The player could answer one way or another. He answered correctly then boom! Action! My hat is off to the player as well. There is the game then there is the game. Hey, we are going to do this game and four players are in and one player is out. GMs have options, Ben took the direct route. If the game is the heist, and one player is a hold out, the game is still about the heist for the other four players. A GM can try to manipulate the situation, like Stu suggested by upping the ante: the situation (the heist) can affect the character’s loved ones or property. If doing what Ben did is railroad, then so is what Stu said, only in the guise of in-game manipulation. At its root it is the same thing really. Which way would you want to go, “What is the most interesting choice?” or “The bad guy kidnapped your sister. Now do you want to go?” I prefer Ben’s solution. My assumption is that if the player decided to not to go the heist route, there would be no specific in-game consequences. There would just be other things that happen. But if you go Stu’s route of upping the ante, there are. There is the sandbox and there is the sandbox. I love open sand boxes I like playing in them and GMing them. Making characters with interesting goals and self-motivation is totally fun and a lot of what I hear on Happy Jack’s APs. There is also a sandbox game where there is a task, a central task that the game is built around. In these games there is a beginning point and maybe a vague endpoint or multiple endpoints and how the players get from the beginning point to some kind of end point is the journey/game. I have run many of these types of games and it sounds like ben set up his players to know the exact type of game they were going to do. I think Kimi assumes that in a sandbox whatever the players do is great. If the players know that the game is about a heist. I, as a GM, don’t assume that whatever the player does is great. If I st up a heist game and I have three players who want to do a heist and Player A wants to enter a hotdog eating contest. If Player A is a thespian, and if he sticks to his guns because his character is "really into hotdogs," then Player A is a dick. Ben’s player is not a dick and Ben is a hero for getting straight to the point. So Ben, you did great. If it happens again do not hesitate to do it again. You are right. It is not a cry for help or a pitiful wimp out. It is a shining example of being a great DM. Grrrr. I am so angry. Oh wait I am not twelve. Never mind. I don’t see Ben as a great GM. He handled a situation. Everyone ended up having fun. But really it was one way to handle the situation out of many. Yet he felt tainted by it. Ben, I wouldn’t feel tainted.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on May 10, 2018 3:35:57 GMT -8
This discussion on Ben’s “taint” worried me. It veered into the idea that (i’m paraphrasing) “players should not ask the GM for specific things to happen” eg a heist, or whatever. While I agree that in the platonic ideal game, a player shouldn’t need to ask for things, this request is actually feedback, it’s actually saying to the GM “you don’t appear to have noticed that I built a ‘face’ character, please give the the opportunity to play the character I built” or even “I getting kinda tired of heists, can we do a prison escape of something soon.”
Such Requests are all feedback...
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Post by uncommonman on May 10, 2018 3:57:02 GMT -8
This discussion on Ben’s “taint” worried me. It veered into the idea that (i’m paraphrasing) “players should not ask the GM for specific things to happen” eg a heist, or whatever. While I agree that in the platonic ideal game, a player shouldn’t need to ask for things, this request is actually feedback, it’s actually saying to the GM “you don’t appear to have noticed that I built a ‘face’ character, please give the the opportunity to play the character I built” or even “I getting kinda tired of heists, can we do a prison escape of something soon.” Such Requests are all feedback... It is important how the request is phrased to determine if it is reasonable. "I want to do a heist" isn't unreasonable but "I want to get the maguffin in a heist in stead of what the GM already have planed" seems a bit to much IMO.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on May 10, 2018 4:52:34 GMT -8
I've always had a choad defined as "a dick that is wider than it is long". Like a tuna can.
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