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Post by ayslyn on Jul 11, 2018 3:59:16 GMT -8
Additionally, one might want to research Tulpas.
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Post by EricaOdd on Jul 11, 2018 4:03:49 GMT -8
Bingo! I know about tulpas. I had one show up in a Victorian era monster-hunters game not too long ago.
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Post by vyrrk on Jul 11, 2018 11:01:10 GMT -8
So the thing I love about the Science pantheon that Jason built is that people believe science now like people used to believe the bible. Massive amounts of people that have never studied it, but everyone tells them its real so they follow it.
In my opinion, things like corporations wouldn't have very much of a following. Not many people BELIEVE in a company. They don't like their jobs and don't think they will SAVE them(Well, maybe Elon Musk?). No one believes Disney is going to save them from their crappy lives. No one believes Disney is REAL.
But, I do love the idea if people like something enough it becomes real. Not sure if it is "correct" to the setting though. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by EricaOdd on Jul 11, 2018 14:34:02 GMT -8
Ok, so what about music? What's everyone's thoughts on a Music Pantheon? Wanna be a demigod son of Hard Rock?
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Post by uncommonman on Jul 11, 2018 19:55:03 GMT -8
So the thing I love about the Science pantheon that Jason built is that people believe science now like people used to believe the bible. Massive amounts of people that have never studied it, but everyone tells them its real so they follow it. In my opinion, things like corporations wouldn't have very much of a following. Not many people BELIEVE in a company. They don't like their jobs and don't think they will SAVE them(Well, maybe Elon Musk?). No one believes Disney is going to save them from their crappy lives. No one believes Disney is REAL. But, I do love the idea if people like something enough it becomes real. Not sure if it is "correct" to the setting though. Just my 2 cents. Children believe in Disney as much as Santa so if Santa is real in Demigods hen Disney would be too.
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Post by ayslyn on Jul 12, 2018 1:58:42 GMT -8
So the thing I love about the Science pantheon that Jason built is that people believe science now like people used to believe the bible. Massive amounts of people that have never studied it, but everyone tells them its real so they follow it. In my opinion, things like corporations wouldn't have very much of a following. Not many people BELIEVE in a company. They don't like their jobs and don't think they will SAVE them(Well, maybe Elon Musk?). No one believes Disney is going to save them from their crappy lives. No one believes Disney is REAL. But, I do love the idea if people like something enough it becomes real. Not sure if it is "correct" to the setting though. Just my 2 cents. Children believe in Disney as much as Santa so if Santa is real in Demigods hen Disney would be too. … As much? Sure.... But in a very different way.
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Post by uncommonman on Jul 12, 2018 6:27:27 GMT -8
Children believe in Disney as much as Santa so if Santa is real in Demigods hen Disney would be too. … As much? Sure.... But in a very different way. And now we are getting into an interesting part of the power of belief. How do we measure belief power (BP for short) I suggest we use a percentage of population within a determined area to quantify BP, and let's set that area to 1000 miles. Example: 50% of population of 2 million gives a BP of 1 million. Would all people count as equal in regards to BP? Would a god for a small population be less powerful? Then children in a city would make "child gods" very powerful and that could lead to powerful evil entities like the boogeyman or slender man.
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Post by ayslyn on Jul 12, 2018 7:22:55 GMT -8
… As much? Sure.... But in a very different way. And now we are getting into an interesting part of the power of belief. How do we measure belief power (BP for short) I suggest we use a percentage of population within a determined area to quantify BP, and let's set that area to 1000 miles. Example: 50% of population of 2 million gives a BP of 1 million. Would all people count as equal in regards to BP? Would a god for a small population be less powerful? Then children in a city would make "child gods" very powerful and that could lead to powerful evil entities like the boogeyman or slender man. I suspect that you misunderstand me. There’s a big difference between belief and trust. It’s the reason why—while I think it fascinating to explore the idea— I quite disagree with Jason about the Science pantheon. While there are certainly people who don’t understand how it works, they believe in the science. But that’s something of an over simplification. More accurately, they believe in the authorities that tell them how that science... manifests(?). For instance. I am not a car guy. I know the general principles of how an engine works, but for anything else I rely on my belief in the expertise (and honesty) of my mechanic. That’s VERY different than a belief in the science underpinning it. Similarly, I would definitely argue that a child’s belief in Santa or the Easter Bunny is worlds different than their belief in what Disney tells them.
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Post by vyrrk on Jul 12, 2018 10:17:18 GMT -8
And now we are getting into an interesting part of the power of belief. How do we measure belief power (BP for short) I suggest we use a percentage of population within a determined area to quantify BP, and let's set that area to 1000 miles. Example: 50% of population of 2 million gives a BP of 1 million. Would all people count as equal in regards to BP? Would a god for a small population be less powerful? Then children in a city would make "child gods" very powerful and that could lead to powerful evil entities like the boogeyman or slender man. I suspect that you misunderstand me. There’s a big difference between belief and trust. It’s the reason why—while I think it fascinating to explore the idea— I quite disagree with Jason about the Science pantheon. While there are certainly people who don’t understand how it works, they believe in the science. But that’s something of an over simplification. More accurately, they believe in the authorities that tell them how that science... manifests(?). For instance. I am not a car guy. I know the general principles of how an engine works, but for anything else I rely on my belief in the expertise (and honesty) of my mechanic. That’s VERY different than a belief in the science underpinning it. Similarly, I would definitely argue that a child’s belief in Santa or the Easter Bunny is worlds different than their belief in what Disney tells them. So I understand what you mean by that car illustration... but I don't think it tracks exactly for me. People don't believe in cars for salvation from the worlds problems. People don't listen to others views on cars to make their life better. People don't treat cars like a religion. (Beside in hyperbole) I think the same is true for Disney or Corporations. They may "love" them, but don't have "faith" in them. I think Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy maybe a little different. Children actually BELIEVE in them while they are young. Its complicated because they are young and don't understand what belief really means... Maybe something like a Kids faith Pantheon? A weak group of gods that only exist because of less complex faith? ymmv Ayslan: I always respect your opinion and posts. I hope you don't see my response as a way of starting a argument. Just a friendly conversation.
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Post by ayslyn on Jul 13, 2018 2:09:45 GMT -8
I suspect that you misunderstand me. There’s a big difference between belief and trust. It’s the reason why—while I think it fascinating to explore the idea— I quite disagree with Jason about the Science pantheon. While there are certainly people who don’t understand how it works, they believe in the science. But that’s something of an over simplification. More accurately, they believe in the authorities that tell them how that science... manifests(?). For instance. I am not a car guy. I know the general principles of how an engine works, but for anything else I rely on my belief in the expertise (and honesty) of my mechanic. That’s VERY different than a belief in the science underpinning it. Similarly, I would definitely argue that a child’s belief in Santa or the Easter Bunny is worlds different than their belief in what Disney tells them. So I understand what you mean by that car illustration... but I don't think it tracks exactly for me. People don't believe in cars for salvation from the worlds problems. People don't listen to others views on cars to make their life better. People don't treat cars like a religion. (Beside in hyperbole) I think the same is true for Disney or Corporations. They may "love" them, but don't have "faith" in them. I think Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy maybe a little different. Children actually BELIEVE in them while they are young. Its complicated because they are young and don't understand what belief really means... Maybe something like a Kids faith Pantheon? A weak group of gods that only exist because of less complex faith? ymmv Ayslan: I always respect your opinion and posts. I hope you don't see my response as a way of starting a argument. Just a friendly conversation. Only an argument in the best meanings of the word, so we're all good. I think that we're mostly in agreement on the difference between faith and trust/love/whatever you want to call it.... I suspect that our differences are mostly just matters of opinion on the edge cases of who falls where. You're definitely right in the idea that no one worships their cars (… well, mostly ^.- ), which was sort of my point. That I can believe in something without knowing how it works; yet, without it crossing over into Faith. On the science debate, I saw an interesting video on YouTube recently that I think is quite relevant here. It was talking about the idea that one side of the political divide was in denial of science, and it made an *excellent* case that neither side held the high ground in acceptance, rather BOTH sides were (generally) equally denying science. The difference was, instead, on WHICH scientific arenas each clove to and disagreed with. With children, I might quibble and say that their belief is less non-complex, and more into the realm of pure.... But, as I said, would be a quibble.
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Post by vyrrk on Jul 13, 2018 8:13:27 GMT -8
ayslyn I would love to see that youtube! Do you have a link?
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Post by ayslyn on Jul 13, 2018 8:51:29 GMT -8
ayslyn I would love to see that youtube! Do you have a link? I would have to do some digging, but sure. I am nearly positive that it was Jonathan Haidt (sp?).
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Post by ayslyn on Jul 13, 2018 9:10:52 GMT -8
youtu.be/n9kJkuuedw0There we are. Dr. Haidt is an interesting man. If you have the time, I heartily recommend watching his other stuff.
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Post by probablyok on Jul 13, 2018 9:52:34 GMT -8
I love the corporate entities idea! EricaOdd do you mind if I use that example in the book? We have a section on how to make up pantheons, etc.
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Post by EricaOdd on Jul 13, 2018 10:14:26 GMT -8
Sure, absolutely!
I'm flattered and honored to have added something to your book.
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