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Post by diabolicwombat on Nov 6, 2012 17:05:14 GMT -8
What happens if the local desert peoples find out that you have a cleric that can summon unlimited quantities of water? How many endless hours of Create Water can he cast before he is exhausted? If one group now has access to water, does it start some kind of conflict? Do they start questioning why their own clerics don't do the same? Are the clerics now pissed off that you started this line of questions? Being the only person with access to water in a big, empty space full of people that want that water is pretty scary as well. Maybe not quite the the same feeling as the pure environmental aspect, but it's a lot harder to be thirsty when you know you have access to water...if you could only get a few moments away from your guides/traders/captives.
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Post by stork on Nov 6, 2012 17:14:15 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2012 13:11:35 GMT -8
What happens if the local desert peoples find out that you have a cleric that can summon unlimited quantities of water? How many endless hours of Create Water can he cast before he is exhausted? If one group now has access to water, does it start some kind of conflict? Do they start questioning why their own clerics don't do the same? Are the clerics now pissed off that you started this line of questions? Being the only person with access to water in a big, empty space full of people that want that water is pretty scary as well. Maybe not quite the the same feeling as the pure environmental aspect, but it's a lot harder to be thirsty when you know you have access to water...if you could only get a few moments away from your guides/traders/captives. Lots of great ideas. Its rather like the old what if my party decides to quit adventuring and open up a stirp club/brothel/amusement park. If they won't go to the adventure bring it to them. Also keep in mind that much like D&D 4e default Pathfinder assumes the players are already well above the common man. They are at heroic power levels from day one. So if you want that old school dangerous feel you have to up the worlds threat level to compensate.
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Post by savagedaddy on Nov 28, 2012 12:45:59 GMT -8
I often find that as a GM our first instinct is to create house rules, or tinker with established powers or and other game mechanics when we run up against an obstacle. And I often find myself dissatisfied with the end result.
Might I suggest a different approach? Tear a page out of Occam's playbook. All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the right one. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. Defining how the Create Water spell works in order to restrict it is not the problem.
If I understand you correctly, the problem is that you want them to experience the hazards of traversing a desert and feel Creating Water with magic sidesteps that. My approach would be -- let the baby have his bottle. The player spent points to get that power, he should get to use it without any restriction or limitation.
Who cares if he can create water out of thin air all day long in a massive desert? Hmm... interesting question. Indeed, who would care? How about a desert dwelling warlord?! What is the most valuable thing in a desert? Water! Water is life, but more importantly it is POWER!
To a Desert Warlord, your player is the goose who laid the golden egg. If he kidnapped the character, chained him to a wall, and forced him to Create Water all day he could rule the desert with an iron fist!
The rest of the characters must experience the hazards of the environment as they go to rescue their comrade from the impenetrable dessert fortress.
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Post by savagedaddy on Nov 28, 2012 12:48:44 GMT -8
It's the 80/20 rule: 20 % of the effort yields 80% percent of the result.
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Post by jazzisblues on Nov 28, 2012 23:03:29 GMT -8
I often find that as a GM our first instinct is to create house rules, or tinker with established powers or and other game mechanics when we run up against an obstacle. And I often find myself dissatisfied with the end result. Might I suggest a different approach? Tear a page out of Occam's playbook. All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the right one. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. Defining how the Create Water spell works in order to restrict it is not the problem. If I understand you correctly, the problem is that you want them to experience the hazards of traversing a desert and feel Creating Water with magic sidesteps that. My approach would be -- let the baby have his bottle. The player spent points to get that power, he should get to use it without any restriction or limitation. Who cares if he can create water out of thin air all day long in a massive desert? Hmm... interesting question. Indeed, who would care? How about a desert dwelling warlord?! What is the most valuable thing in a desert? Water! Water is life, but more importantly it is POWER! To a Desert Warlord, your player is the goose who laid the golden egg. If he kidnapped the character, chained him to a wall, and forced him to Create Water all day he could rule the desert with an iron fist! The rest of the characters must experience the hazards of the environment as they go to rescue their comrade from the impenetrable dessert fortress. Perfectly valid approach, what both SD's and my idea share is the concept of simplify the problem. Don't over think it. JiB
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2012 18:07:24 GMT -8
The problem I have always had with the kidnap the character technique is that if they are a captive you have ham stringed the player. Unless the guy capturing them is stupid enough to leave alot of openings for escape that player has essentially left the playing field while the rest of hte party tries to rescue them.
Perhaps it has been experience with poor GMs, but it is a technique which I have seen do nothing but suck the fun out of the game for said captured character every time I've seen it done.
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Post by jazzisblues on Nov 30, 2012 7:50:21 GMT -8
The problem I have always had with the kidnap the character technique is that if they are a captive you have ham stringed the player. Unless the guy capturing them is stupid enough to leave alot of openings for escape that player has essentially left the playing field while the rest of hte party tries to rescue them. Perhaps it has been experience with poor GMs, but it is a technique which I have seen do nothing but suck the fun out of the game for said captured character every time I've seen it done. I have used this technique on occasion, but usually when this sort of thing happens, we're at a point in the game where it's grossly inconvenient to try to story someone in so (and maybe this is bad of me) I usually just bamf them in and we roll with it and let the story sort itself out later. JiB
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Dec 2, 2012 15:04:51 GMT -8
But the hazards of extreme climate survival can be good sources of role playing. Yeah your characters can pummel the shit outta creatures but when the challenge is mother nature herself!! Exactly my point. I want the threat to be at times pervasive and intangible. Not a constant heroes vs villains, but also a nice heroes vs environment. A great opportunity for some of the less combat heavy PCs to shine...
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