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Post by bloodsparrow on Nov 27, 2012 14:37:49 GMT -8
So apparently Kickstarter is Stu's Sketchers.
I don't even have Sophie, I traded her in for an extra case. On the subject of the Bones kickstarter, what we were sending money in was the creation of molds for the minis we are getting and that is not a fast process, also that process happens pretty much on the other side of the planet. I think they've also done a reasonably good job communicating when their time table has changed and why.
Kickstarter isn't a venue to sell things, it's a place to find backing for a project. If you can do a thing in your spare time and just need help to get it published that's awesome. I'm down, I will back the shit out of Stu's CD and Tyler's book. But if you're looking to start a business, or you have a business and you want to keep employing people to work on a specific project, or you want to make something your profession, Kickstarter is for that too.
That being said, the guy who still hasn't finished the pdf Tyler mentioned is a total slacker.
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Post by ericfromnj on Nov 27, 2012 15:52:50 GMT -8
IIRC The original Dark Sun had a system where you made up 3 characters and could switch them out...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 17:59:12 GMT -8
I'm loving the fact that my kickstarter got mentioned on the Drunkcast Also, trust this podcast to come up with the dirtiest alternate version of Tasty Minstrel Games imaginable. Luckily it's not my company, I just got contracted to do the art.
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Post by Stu Venable on Nov 27, 2012 18:32:51 GMT -8
Yeah, sending in a request for a plug to the show is like walking through a minefield blindfolded...
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freyki
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 86
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Post by freyki on Nov 27, 2012 19:13:18 GMT -8
In one of the many podcasts I listen to, someone said something to the effect of, "for gaming, kickstarter should be called kick-finisher".
I wish I could remember who said it, because it really opened my eyes on which projects I should back.
-Freyki-
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Post by shadrack on Nov 27, 2012 21:34:38 GMT -8
IIRC The original Dark Sun had a system where you made up 3 characters and could switch them out... This is true. The idea was that they'd die so fast, even though you are starting at level 3, you'll be needing a new one soon. Also, Kickstarter peeves => I backed a savage worlds project (shocker, I know), and when it had closed and they were all, "we're running behind... poor us". I noticed they had started another fucking kickstarter... REALLY?!?!?! I sent a polite message (privately) and commented that I would be a lot more likely to back project #2 if they had shipped project #1 in a timely fashion (read: met their own deadlines/goals). I got "Its entirely your choice as to who you back and when, I wont make you do so.I dont believe that you have any indication of how things work in the publishing industry and I dont believe you have any right to judge, and if you will provide your paypal address I would be happy to refund the money you spent on [deleted by me]. Thank you for your patronage."ugh, totally should've taken them up on that, book had some cool ideas, but overall it was just their novel with some game stats thrown on top. Oh, they have a kickstarter up now. I won't be backing that one either. I much prefer the 'ransom' model, ie. it's all done and ready to go, if we get the $$$ we'll release it. I think right now I am waiting for several kickstarters. The only one I think won't come through is Far West www.kickstarter.com/projects/Adamant/far-west-western-wuxia-mashup-adventure-game?ref=livehe's put out some manuscript pages and such, but... I'm not hopeful. I am waiting on several, but have faith on them, mostly I've had good experiences.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 4:54:55 GMT -8
Minefield? Thats cool... I have this stick to poke the ground with.... that'll work right? Right? Hey why are you guys all the way back there?
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Post by ericfromnj on Nov 28, 2012 6:12:23 GMT -8
I just realized Unknown Armies got mentioned. I wish they had an updated version that had a more modern field (VHS porn, really?).
If you are ever at a con and someone named Todd Furhler is running UA, PLAY IT.
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Post by jazzisblues on Nov 28, 2012 7:18:46 GMT -8
RE: Kickstarter
I'm fairly picky with what I back, and once I've done so I sort of forget about it, that way (like yesterday) when I get a notification that something is ready (in this case the pdf map of New Orleans for Deadlands Noir) it's sort of like getting a present. I don't throw money that I care about at a kickstarter.
If I were going to do a kickstarter I would be very sure that I came through with the goods when I promised them, but we're talking about creative people here. Creative people sometimes have wonderful intentions but not so much in the realm of follow through.
JiB
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jfever
Journeyman Douchebag
FEVAH!!!!
Posts: 218
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Post by jfever on Nov 28, 2012 8:25:15 GMT -8
I got "Its entirely your choice as to who you back and when, I wont make you do so.I dont believe that you have any indication of how things work in the publishing industry and I dont believe you have any right to judge, and if you will provide your paypal address I would be happy to refund the money you spent on [deleted by me]. Thank you for your patronage."WHOA. . . . . . .. .. dick. response. I hope that wasn't pinnacle. Because that shit will make me not want to buy any of their stuff any time soon. You don't have to know about the industry to see people taking your money and taking their sweet ass time to deliver.
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Post by shadrack on Nov 28, 2012 8:26:47 GMT -8
not Pinnacle
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Post by jazzisblues on Nov 28, 2012 8:41:00 GMT -8
I would have been surprised if it had been Pinnacle, but you might want to say something to Pinnacle because this is either a licensee of their name or someone who's using it under the table, but in either case they will probably want to know about the customer relations of someone using the Savage Worlds name. JiB
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Post by rickno7 on Nov 28, 2012 10:03:58 GMT -8
On paper the idea of Kickstarter is so wonderful, especially to a bunch of creative people(artists, writers, developers). It is almost like "why has no one created something like this before?" circulates each time something like this is created before. And it HAS been created before, in almost each industry. Most of the time it breaks down because it is not self sustaining.
The dirty secret of why there are Publisher/Developer relationships in almost all creative industries is because 99% of the creative people just can not be trusted with total freedom. I hate that its true, you hate that its true, but it doesn't make it any less true.
Whenever a developer tends to get the cred and the respect to be independent of a publisher, when they get big enough to say "hey, we made millions, we're in the 1% biggest profit makers, trust us, you don't need to have oversight" we almost always have the same result. You give them forever to finish something, they will take forever to finish it.
When it comes to creative people, you have to have the motivation to get things done if you intend to get a timely product. Someone has to be there to exert pressure for 99% of what is created out there. I know I sound like "the man", I'm really not. I do not work in an industry that has this sort of thing, but look around. Editors have to hound journalists to get stories in. Even Hunter S. Thompson had someone riding his ass about getting his stories done. If big bad EA is not there cracking that whip on Bioware to get a Mass Effect out every couple of years, you get Dragon Age 1 taking 10 years to complete. If you don't make Patrick Rothfuss finish his Kingkiller trilogy, you get him signing the contract on the next set of books when he hasn't finished his first set.
This relationship is not perfect. Dragon Age 2 was done remarkably fast, and it sucked donkey balls. But its something to keep in mind when you're crowdfunding things. There is zero accountability to these developers. The closest you come to accountability is hoping that their next project isn't quite as well funded.
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Post by Stu Venable on Nov 28, 2012 10:24:41 GMT -8
I second Jib's suggestion.
That is quite an attitude for a company that's missed its promise date.
I've heard a lot of people say something to the effect of "you're not buying a product, you're backing a project," while this is true, there is also a VERY CLEAR quid pro quo in the listing of backing levels and rewards.
"IF you give us X money, we'll give you Y product." Like it or not, that is a contract -- just like the kind of contract you sign with a construction contractor.
Clearly they don't know fuck-all about customer service or investor relations.
And it sounds like their business model depends on Kickstarter. It seems to me that you'd use Kickstarter to offset production costs and finance inventory. A company making good products should then be able to sell that inventory and use the profits from it (which are considerable, their Costs of Goods Sold is covered by Kickstarter) to fund their next project.
That's why they call it "Kickstarter" and not "presale service for numerous products so I don't have to incur any risk."
Speaking personally, I think it would be a service to everyone to disclose this company's name.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on Nov 28, 2012 12:48:06 GMT -8
I can NOT agree more with Stu's stance on Kickstarter. I don't care what it is you are wanting to produce, you should come to Kickstarter the same way you would if you were going to an investor. If you walked into an investor's office and said "Hey give me money because I have a great idea." Your ass would hit the pavement so fast you wouldn't realize you ever actually walked inside. Now if you walked in with paperwork, background designs and testing, prototypes, etc... that's another story.
One of the biggest projects that was funded that I refused to touch(when I had the money) was the Terah Project for a third party Pathfinder company. Steampunk for Pathfinder. I refused to back it because they had very little done on the game when they posted it for funding. Once the game was actually funded, but the KS wasn't over, then they went to work writing the product. No thanks, thats total bullshit.
In games especially, you should have the game basically DONE. Artwork and finished layout etc do cost money so yeah you may not have that done and that's forgivable. But to bring your project and have a rough idea and 20 pages out of 250 finished... Go home.
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