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Post by malifer on Dec 23, 2012 11:59:21 GMT -8
I use Juice to download the podcast, but I always check to see if it's posted on the home page before I open juice.
The show notes actually confused me for a moment. I thought what the hell is that block of text. lol.
Then to have it end "There. Show notes." ;D
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Post by Kainguru on Dec 23, 2012 14:40:04 GMT -8
I don't like 'em (show notes) now we have 'em . . . it ruins the surprise of listening to each weeks podcast wondering what will happen next . . . Aaron
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Post by Stu Venable on Dec 23, 2012 15:13:05 GMT -8
I. Can't. Win.
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Post by inflatus on Dec 23, 2012 16:16:15 GMT -8
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 17:12:08 GMT -8
I get the podcast through iTunes so I didn't even notice them until you mentioned them and I expanded the window.
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Post by malifer on Dec 23, 2012 18:20:50 GMT -8
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jpk
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 58
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Post by jpk on Dec 24, 2012 1:33:39 GMT -8
Not once you let "the public" get involved. Or my mother. Either way, you're doomed.
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SirGuido
Supporter
Drizztmas Santa
Ask me about the Drizztmas Exchange!
Posts: 2,127
Preferred Game Systems: L5R, Traveller, Fate Accelerated, Masks
Currently Playing: Nothing.
Currently Running: Nothing.
Favorite Species of Monkey: Anything in a Cage.
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Post by SirGuido on Dec 24, 2012 4:36:45 GMT -8
We appreciate you all the same.
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Post by Kainguru on Dec 24, 2012 7:06:39 GMT -8
It wasn't a criticism it's more like you think you really want something and when you get it you realise that the thing that annoyed you about not having it wasn't actually that bad. It's like now we have show notes the conversational feel as a natural ebb and flow with numerous tangents because you know where it's going. I'll just have to avoid reading them til after the first listening. Aaron
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Post by savagedaddy on Dec 24, 2012 12:15:49 GMT -8
Regarding FUDGING die rolls...
I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but... perhaps, as Stu claimed, I have aspergers (57:43 - 58:06). Character death is the result of the free will and random chance, not a decision for the GM to make. As a GM, I'm not out to kill the PCs. It's not a competition. I'm by no means adversarial. In the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi, "You can't win... but there are alternatives to fighting".
As I see it, the reason some GMs are compelled to 'fudge' rolls is to drive the story or guilt over 'killing' a character. Should you fudge 'perception' rolls? How about 'stealth' rolls? Why not 'charisma' rolls? I doubt it. The only time I hear of GMs fudging die rolls is when it comes to damage... especially if it will result PC death.
In my humble opinion, Fudging dice rolls is akin to 'railroading'.
The problem is a matter of conscience, or dramatic timing. Rather than fudge (cheat), why not Implement a mechanic that gives characters the ability to take Dramatic Control? For example, the Savage Worlds benny mechanic is a built-in ret-con mechanic. If the system you're playing in doesn't have it, create a house rule that allows characters a single use per session mechanic that transfers the GM's narrative control to the player for a single action.
Bottom line, advise the players that 'combat can be deadly' and give them the freedom to take the risks with eyes wide open.
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Post by Stu Venable on Dec 24, 2012 14:33:59 GMT -8
The Asperger's comment, IIRC, was specifically about killing a player's character in the very beginning of the session, where the player will spend the rest of the session either spectating or making another character.
That said, if you house-rule the system to account for "unwanted" or "unsatisfactory" rolls, how is that different from fudging or ignoring a die roll? Both are changing the fundamental rules of the game for the same situation.
The point I was making is that there is a balancing act between "we should play by the rules" and "we're all here to have fun."
I personally know people who were new to the hobby, took the time to make a character who was killed in the first 5 minutes and decided, "this is stupid. I'm dead already? Forget this." And they have never played again.
Certainly not the most mature reaction, but then again, it's a past time -- it should be more about fun and less about frustration.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2012 20:23:58 GMT -8
Bennies won't help the player if the dice explode beyond there ability to soak them. First game of Savage Worlds I ran I exploded a d8 four times for damage. It was an instant kill; we'd been playing ten minutes. I fudged the roll without hesitation because killing the player at that point wasn't fun, it wasn't dramatic, and it did nothing to improve the game. In fact it likely would have been an instant derailment.
Do I fudge Perception, Charisma, or Stealth rolls? No, because failure at those is fodder for great RP from the player who missed the role. For instance while introducing a new player to my Savage Worlds game she snuck into the room of another player who hadn’t met her yet. She failed the stealth roll that would have let her steal what she wanted and get out. So suddenly she and the other player went into a five minute sidebar where they played out what happened when Norra the gun toting widow found a teenage Egyptian thief in her hotel room. It was hilarious and dramatic, and wonderful.
I have killed characters and I will do so again in the future. But I make a rule of not doing so unless the player has done something incredibly stupid (and I warn them before the dice roll), the player wants to kill the character off, or its one of those dramatic moments where the rule of cool comes into play.
For instance during a FATE game I ran, near the end one of the players who was a Gnoll decided he wanted to climb out a window and scale the side of the tower they were in to get to the top faster. He had a complication of a broken arm at the time, it was storming outside because of a spell in progress, and he didn’t have the climb skill. All in all it meant that the attempt was almost certain death unless he rolled four pluses and invoked an Aspect. I warned him it was a really bad idea that was almost certain death. He said he didn’t care and rolled four minuses. I let him describe his character tumbling down the rain drenched walls of the tower to his death, and the rest of the party finished up the last twenty minutes of the game.
On the other hand the same buddy runs the 4e D&D game I play in and killed my character recently. There were no dice involved, and I didn't want to die, but we were in a room where a spell was counting down and we were in combat, I purposely positioned myself to slow down the enemy while the rest escaped. He let me know as I started my last turn that if I wasn't out of the room when the spell hit I'd die. Thing was our thief hadn't made it out yet either and he had the mcguffin we’d come in for. So I used my actions to run to him, throw him out the door, and slam it shut. As the round ended so did my character.
It was an epic way to go that led to a multipart arc where I played a variety of NPCs and the party tried to figure out some way to save me since he purposefully made resurrection prohibited expensive. Eventually the party thought they had saved me, but I’m actually playing a new character, a revenant of my former self now bound to the Goddess of Death and on a mission to collect kill several people who have avoided their fate. Considering on player is a Cleric of a Goddess of life when this becomes known it’s going to be an epic tale.
On the other hand I almost dropped Traveller after a single session because the same GM killed my character in the first twenty minutes of our first session with a really lucky roll. He decided he was going to try rolling in the open and my character got fragged by a grenade. The rest of the party played for less than an hour more before they all just decided to quit because there I was sitting back with nothing to do and after my random death they were to afraid to take any chances and the game got really boring really quickly. We eventually gave the system a second try and rolled up a completely new party. The GM rolls behind a screen now and I don’t know if he’s fudged any or not. But we are six sessions in and he’s nearly killed all of us several times. Its been a lot of fun, and we still play more cautious then we would D&D, but that one random death nearly killed the system for the entire group.
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Post by jazzisblues on Dec 25, 2012 9:11:05 GMT -8
As I've said more than once, I am very much waffling back and forth on this point. I have done it both ways, and felt both good and bad about it both ways. At this point, I'm rather leaning towards not fudging dice rolls, but I can't say that I won't.
I will say that I never fudge anything but killing shot rolls, and I never fudge against the pc's.
JiB
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Post by henryhankovitch on Dec 26, 2012 16:18:45 GMT -8
One of the things I enjoy about the 40k RPGs (Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, et al) are how they use Fate Points. Each character has a fixed number of Fate Points--usually from 1 to 4--and you don't get more except by GM fiat under exceptional circumstances. You can use your Fate Points each session to do the usual bennie-style re-rolls or situational bonuses; but you can also burn a Fate Point to cheat death. So if your character takes enough damage that he's going to be splattered all over the floor, he can sacrifice a Fate Point permanently to allow his character to barely survive. You don't get away scot-free: the character is still expected to suffer consequences from the event. It's the difference between dying instantly, and waking up on a surgeon's table two weeks later with half your body replaced with cybernetics. Doubly so since when you run out of "hit points" in 40k, you don't just fall down unconscious, you start pulling up entries from the Critical Hit tables, which are full of things like dismemberment, blindness, gushing wounds, crippling injuries, and various spectacular deaths.
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Post by malifer on Dec 26, 2012 19:41:31 GMT -8
I have heard the argument both ways. I see the merit in both, since both are trying to be fair from different sides of the spectrum. I have fudged a roll here and there, but 90% of the time I don't use a screen (it gets in the way) so my dice are out for all to see. However I take umbrage with this line of thought. . Character death is the result of the free will and random chance not a decision for the GM to make. Yes it is. I control everything except the player's decision. I decided whether or not there are gods, resurrection spells, or even the wind. So I have a pretty big say in the randomness. My job as GM is not "goblin token mover" or "block text reader". It is "fun bringer". I don't think it would be fun for the person who has cleared their schedule, driven to my house to play a stupid game, only to then not get to play while everyone else does. The argument is most likely then why use dice at all. Fair point but the dice are not for me. There are for the players. When the PCs creep into an old abandoned house in the middle of the night. I only need to roll the dice a few times to raise the tension. Suddenly the players perk up "Do I see anything?!" "Can I make a Perception check?" "I attack the gazebo" On the idea of fudging solely in favor of the players. I can say remember definitely not doing so. Once I had one of those bad luck days where I couldn't roll for shit. Only this day was a "Third Act" when the Big Bad Evil Guy was going to be confronted. My players were acting this like a battle with mooks just another day in the park. I let 2 or 3 misses go by, but then I was faced with a choice. A. Continue down this road where suddenly in my Grand Finale, the BBEG was replaced with a incompetent Jerry Lewis like understudy. Utterly uneventful and boring. B. Realize that my Big Badass Evil Guy doesn't need a random die to hit and add some tension and excitement. I went with B. My players went from lazily strolling through the combat to becoming engaged. It was more fun. I do not regret it. Rule Zero. GM can't cheat. The GM making shit up as they go is half of the game. The Players outwit or throw the GM off track constantly, but the GM has to continue making the game up so the Players have something to do. As far as the line of thought there is some regretful reason the GM would Fudge dice. That is easily spun. A GM that can't go with the flow, that just has to have a rule or random table to explain something wants the excuse to say it's not their fault. It's bogus either way. But if you can't make choices about then what are you there for? Only to roll the dice for the Kobolds? May as well be a board game with some plastic bobbly bit in the middle the players can press.
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