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Post by Stu Venable on Dec 28, 2012 13:28:25 GMT -8
So I'm trying to figure out how to portray the Scorpion clan (the entire party belong to a minor vassal family in Crane, and so far, they've only met one Mantis and other Crane from rival families).
It's my understanding that the Scorpion are tasked to foment friction between the clans so they never unite against the Emperor, and that they are the "underhand" of the Emperor, doing the tasks that are necessary but would be deemed dishonorable to other clans.
I see two ways to portray them (and maybe both portrayals would be valid, depending on the individual Scorpion).
1. They act dishonorably because that is their duty to the Empire. 2. They've lost track as to why they were tasked to acted dishonorably, but continue to do so, because it's easy, fun, their nature, etc.
Also, if you go for the "we act dishonorably because it's our duty" how do other clans perceive this? Are they aware of the Scorpions' role to foment strife? Do they know about the "greater good" aspect of this?
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Kveld Ulf
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Post by Kveld Ulf on Dec 28, 2012 15:14:22 GMT -8
I've seen them portrayed both ways through the years. My favorite has been a mix. Most of the elders in the Clan know why they do wha they do, and they feel their Duty to the Emperor is more important than clan or personal honor. However, some of the new clan members are steeped in it from birth, and dont see the duty aspect as much. Just the fun, etc. As for the other clans, some elders may be aware, but also knowing the purpose, and agreeing to it, keep their silence and let the ignorant stay so. This allows you to play the grand conspiracy on one level, and make your players realize that not all Scorpions are malicious.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2012 15:47:30 GMT -8
I see them as a mix of the two, some do it because they see it as their duty* and others use their tradition for their own gain. Not every scorpion has to have the same motivations, it helps to make them more unpredictable. *By the way, duty is the only tenant of the bushido they follow, even though backstabings between the scorpion are not too uncommon. I like to give them unexpected roles in a game, like scapegoats "The scorpion did it! Not us!", unexpected allies (that may or may not backstab you) or red herrings "That Baysushi courtier was acting a bit strange in the court before the murder.". I expect them to have perfected hiding their vilainy in plain sight after a milenium of being such obvious "bad guys".
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Post by D.T. Pints on Dec 28, 2012 20:17:25 GMT -8
Ahoy!
Yeah I'd take it from your previously stated opinions of portraying orcs/goblins as something more than cookie cutter baddies but instead "evil" humanoids might be actual thinking sentient beings with believable motivations and desires you like shades of grey (maybe not 50...). So both aspects are worth pursuing but to take a third tact; make some shit up! The meta-plot of the Scorpion Clan seems so esoteric and above the understanding of beginner characters that a dozen different reasons for being the way they are could be presented. I think it would be a great opportunity to always keep PC's on their toes and play with their expectations of what might motivate these "villains". The PC's could actually encounter a Scorp who actually knows the truth but in the midst of all the other dishonorably acting Clan members it might just seem like one more loony in the bunch.
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Post by SirGuido on Dec 28, 2012 21:09:29 GMT -8
Scorpions are the Masters of Secrets. As such they do what they have to do to protect the secrets they have, and they do what they have to do to learn new ones. They perceive honor in a different way than the rest of Rokugan. You have to remember that there are 7 tenets to the code of Bushido.
-Honesty/Justice -Polite Courtesy -Courage -Honor -Compassion -Sincerity -Duty/Loyalty
Most of Rokugan view Honor as the paramount tenet and live their lives to reflect that, Scorpion disagree. To them, Duty and Loyalty are the most important thing to deal with. The biggest thing to remember about Scorpions is that no one expects them to tell the truth, and they are fine with that. As long as they can predict what you will think, they can take advantage of that. You can only ever trust to do one thing, not be trustworthy.
There is a story in early editions of the game that discusses why Scorpions always wear masks. As the story goes, a young Scorpion is taught to never show their true face to an enemy and that everyone could possibly be an enemy. So at thee time of their gempukku they choose a mask and wear that mask as a symbol for the rest of their lives never revealing themselves entirely to anyone, because to do so is to be weak and to be weak is to lose the game. Because to them, thats all life is... one big game of strategy and planning.
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Post by fray on Dec 28, 2012 21:21:34 GMT -8
I don't think John Wick's answer: In Way of the Scorpion, I explained that they wear masks like badges. "Yes, I'm a Scorpion. And no, I'm not ashamed." applies to either #1 or #2. How do you think it applies Stu?
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Post by kevinr on Dec 29, 2012 10:49:22 GMT -8
For most of the clan it comes down to duty and loyalty. The end justifies the means. More of #1 though there will always be people that the villain costume fits just to good on.
I would highly recommend going over the Scorpion section of "The Great Clans" book. More specifically it has a section on The Scorpion and Necessary Villainy and Using "Necessary Villainy" as a GM.
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Post by henryhankovitch on Dec 30, 2012 14:16:45 GMT -8
Regardless of their actual beliefs, from the players' POV it's probably best to keep them entirely in the dark about what the Scorpion are really like. Let them as PCs draw their own conclusions about the guy in the Japanese Darth Vader mask.
"All you've ever been taught about the Scorpion is that they wear masks, and never ever trust them. Because Scorpions always lie. And then they get you killed"
"But isn't that dishonorable and shit? I thought they were still samurai?"
"Yeah. And still, the Emperor doesn't say shit about it. Weird, huh?"
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2012 9:14:04 GMT -8
Regardless of their actual beliefs, from the players' POV it's probably best to keep them entirely in the dark about what the Scorpion are really like. Let them as PCs draw their own conclusions about the guy in the Japanese Darth Vader mask. Exactly. "All you've ever been taught about the Scorpion is that they wear masks, and never ever trust them. Because Scorpions always lie. And then they get you killed" "And then the sneaky bastards invent a school that is all about deceiving you by always telling the TRUTH! Just watch your back..."
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 19:41:09 GMT -8
Sounds like how one Japanese Emperor hired a Ninja clan as bodyguards and assassins. Ninja who were at the time consider domestic terrorists at best and outlaws at worst. Of course, this in a society where peasants don't have names but job titles. However, the Ninja came from the peasantry. Soo...
One of the Ninja's main tactics is misdirection. Which in an honor based society could be considered some of the most dishonorable shit you could do to win. However, When you play along with this bushido power/honor game; It skews the game of life in their favor. Hence, some mofos just go around it.
However, this Emperor saw a great benefit in deterring his rivals assassination attempts when an ignored gardner or valet flips a ninja star in your face. Let alone how much info they could collect just doing busy work with the nobility pretending the "help" isn't there. Lots of peasants. A few nobles.
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Post by The Northman on Jan 3, 2013 9:46:54 GMT -8
Retouching a little on what's been said:
An argument can be made that the scorpion is the most loyal of all the clans. No other clan or samurai are willing to sacrifice everything they have and everything they are for the empire. All the others stop short of offering up their honor on the pyre of loyalty. Part of that is in the last sentence - empire, not emperor.
Good scorpions should be masters of etiquette, rivaling the crane in courtly matters. Slips are intentional, meant to lure victims into duels they cannot win or foment conflicts favorable to the clan's ultimate goals. Scorpion npc's can be information brokers, unexpected allies for whom the return favor is a necessary evil, or outright antagonists. In any role they should be calm and cold, menacing in a way that says even if they're on your side today, they'd slit your throat tomorrow if it served the empire. Most of all they're a great way to get your players to either commit in full or question honor as the highest motivation. With the Daidoji family's own questionable tactics, this makes crane and scorpion really great foils.
Though I'd make sure you're involving magic by that point. It's a part of what makes them so scary.
On a side note, marriage is a very big deal to them, especially in terms of honoring contracts and how the scorpion half is treated after they leave the protection of the clan. Of course they never really leave that protection...there's a story seed in there.
You could always use he actor school to introduce a scorpion-in-hiding to the group to give the eventual arc a slower burn and bigger reveal. Maybe even have that NPC die in some selfless way in the name of the greater good ("The Greater Good...") that really makes the group question whether the scorpion are really 'bad guys,' or if its simply a matter of perspective.
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Post by The Northman on Jan 3, 2013 9:58:42 GMT -8
L5r.wikia.com is a great resource for all the clans, too.
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Post by SirGuido on Jan 4, 2013 7:17:04 GMT -8
One thing about the Scorpion that touches more on the original question(that I sort of veered away from in my earlier post), is that the Scorpion were never really tasked to BE dishonorable. Their task in actuality was to be the keepers of secrets and to keep the other clans in check. They CHOSE to be dishonorable in doing that.
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Post by thomasjakobsen on Jan 6, 2013 8:13:36 GMT -8
Years ago I played a lot of L5R (1st ed), and some of the most scariest scorpions was polite and very friendly. Masters of etiquette and manipulation.
The scary part was, that everybody knew, that they was willing to come after you with everything they had, if they needed to. And it was rare, that they needed to do it. The unsaid threat was so incredible scary.
Unlike the Crab, that very clearly would tell you, that it would be fun to tear you apart and do bad things with you, best left unsaid i polite society.
The Scorpion would almost never come after you directly - they would come after your family, your lord, anything you held dear - until you would see no way out besides seppuku.
For inspiration I would advice to look at Inglourious Bastars, where the SS officer Hans Landa is so scary, because you just know, that he knows, and that he is two steps ahead of you. As a GM I would portray the Scorpion in much the same way as the Gestapo - they are the not-so-secret Secret Police, they have the means and skills to be evil on a extreme scale, and even though all fear and loathe them, most prefer to be nice towards them unless they simply ignore them. They will always look at your actions - and report them (and any mistakes you make) to their supperiors. Suchs reports might even be whispered at the emperors court - or even worse, they might be whispered to your own lord.
Another idea would be The Dark Knight Rises - that whole revenge scheme taken to the extreme with layers of deception is worthy of a Scorpion. And again the only way out is suicide… For the old school feel I always look to the Godfather. There is so much fun to be had in giving people and offer they can’t refuse. Or perhaps letting the Unicorn awake with a horse head by his side. And everybody knows it is a bad sign to receive a fish wrapped in silk paper (although that last trick was a signature move of the Yasuki gangsters).
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Post by The Northman on Jan 7, 2013 5:14:28 GMT -8
I like that comment a lot - the idea that they just -know-...it's a great way to make them put the players off balance, even if they don't actually know jack till the player spills it.
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