tomes
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Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Jan 10, 2013 13:20:55 GMT -8
OK, how about tips for gaming with folks new to RPG? This can be people who've played MMOs, or just people who haven't every done anything of the sort. Recently I started a game with some friends, none have played RPGs at all, none play MMOs, most have played a few strategic board/card games (a la Catan and others). What was interesting is that I had a psuedo storyline, but just someone who was a first-level baddy, and maybe an overriding evil organization that was completely unfleshed out that I could make as I go... i.e. sandbox ready, however I wanted some structure cause I wasn't sure how much they needed it. As it turns out, the first session went relatively well, however most agree that more structure would have worked well, even to the level of "you all meet at a bar", or "you all know each other from the academy" or whatever... they weren't sure if they should trust each other, which was my intention to let them introduce each other (they had backstories that intertwined), but I think that was too much for them in addition to the fact that the game is a complete unknown to them... Some things I could have benefited from is some suggestions on how to handle noobs: - How much backstory do you give them? How much control do you give them?
- Do you just run a one-shot, or make it a beginning of a campaign in case they are down for that? (in my mind I should've made a one-shot adventure that was railroady to get them into it, then start opening up the paths for their decision making)
- How much do you expose them to the system, and what has been your experience both good and bad? (in my example I used SW explicitly because I knew they were NOT interested in the system or mechanics... it's worked great; card initiative is intuitive; dice rolling is fun with explosions; using bennies can be fun; the creation of characters involves balance and disadvantages, both working to good advantage)
- Knowing your noobs, are there other things you do to get them interested or have fun? (in my case each session, we've had 2 so far, I've introduced new things... in the first they got to use miniatures in a battle where I setup some trees and a cabin made of legos. in the second they had a battle with some 3d stackable hexes i got from a thrift store, so the map was textured and they had to deal with going up-hill. both times we took a short break before the battle, i setup the map while they were out of the room, and then they walked in and were entranced by all the gear... FUN!)
Would love to hear other suggestions, and good and bad experiences.
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Jan 10, 2013 13:27:45 GMT -8
Another aspect of SW I loved is that the system is very ... ambiguous?... for character generation. Basically the players told me roughly what they wanted to play and roughly which set of skills they were most interested in, but I created their stats. Although I've given them character sheets, they only have had to refer to them when doing actions (die-roll requiring actions, in which case I point out to them what they need to look up; this starts to get them learning system mechanics without me having to explain much of them when not needed).
Also in my case the system setting is fantasy, but my own world and setting... their characters are not really simple tropes, but I've given them simple names... e.g. one is a Gnome Druid, one is a Half-elf Ranger, one an Elf Wizard, however this not AD&D with classes... i've just given them some magic here and there, some items, etc. and those are just labels for their char sheet... nothing is fixed as far as how they will progress, etc. One wanted some fire ability... so I made her an Elf Elementalist Ranger... basically a ranger light, but with fire magic (fire strike, fire burst, etc.) and the backstory that she's had to hide her abilities since Elf firestarters are considered bad omens by the Elf community. I.e. just make up stuff that we can use later for storylines, etc.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Jan 10, 2013 15:15:41 GMT -8
OK, how about tips for gaming with folks new to RPG? Hi tomes, I am just skimming through here and saw your post. I use RPGs to find friends to create my social network in a foreign language country where I am otherwise totally isolated. As that is my goal, I have difficulty finding people with a command of English let alone knowledge what is an FLGS. So I exclusively recruit noobs and I have come to enjoy them infinitesimally more than the gamers who mistakenly assume I am looking for a petty argument rather than normal people when I say let's play RPGs. Some things I could have benefited from is some suggestions on how to handle noobs: · How much backstory do you give them? How much control do you give them? · Do you just run a one-shot, or make it a beginning of a campaign in case they are down for that? (in my mind I should've made a one-shot adventure that was railroady to get them into it, then start opening up the paths for their decision making) · How much do you expose them to the system, and what has been your experience both good and bad? (in my example I used SW explicitly because I knew they were NOT interested in the system or mechanics... it's worked great; card initiative is intuitive; dice rolling is fun with explosions; using bennies can be fun; the creation of characters involves balance and disadvantages, both working to good advantage) · Knowing your noobs, are there other things you do to get them interested or have fun? (in my case each session, we've had 2 so far, I've introduced new things... in the first they got to use miniatures in a battle where I setup some trees and a cabin made of legos. in the second they had a battle with some 3d stackable hexes i got from a thrift store, so the map was textured and they had to deal with going up-hill. both times we took a short break before the battle, i setup the map while they were out of the room, and then they walked in and were entranced by all the gear... FUN!) Well, before I go any further: I start everyone at level 1. That is important for the opinions and suggestions I am about to give you. But it also makes sense that players new to your game/your system also start off with smaller worries as players. My players roll ability stats and I tell them the higher the score is better and let them place the rolls where they wish. Then I ask them about concepts they have giving only the broadest descriptions they can fit themselves into. I play my variation of D&D and if someone wants to play a Thief, I have a pretty good idea about that choice before I present the classes to them after they have told me they are satisfied with the placement of their ability rolls. As for concepts such as Alignment, I use a standardized questionnaire for many sound reasons. Sometimes, when people see I am basically doing profiling, people will ask: do I answer this as my character or myself? I say as you wish. I keep these for later reference (mwahahahaha) and I also get a game mechanic result. I also avoid skill trees and such things in my game so your mileage may vary. You might just do the player intake interview as I do and handle the skill tree progressions yourself, making the best choices on behalf of the player according to their interview answers. If you present a whole menu, in my experience you will get deer in your headlights. Less is more. Offer less and listen more. Probe them, Clarify their answers in your head. Do it over a relaxed coffee. Next, I throw open the door of imagination by asking them what equipment they imagine to be carrying on a long trip. I explain the period but say if they can think of it, we will create it together. They will get a couple of silver pieces from me at the end to pay for a few nights on the road and that's about it anyways so I do not go with the 150GP equipment list in my system. If someone wants armour (leather, at level 1) or a spy glass, I ask them for a story to go with it, relating this need back to the world they are going to play in. This is interesting and makes the item a personal totem of sorts. I have to say noobs never see a rule book. All this is done on a clean sheet of paper with a pencil. They will first see a character sheet at the first game – what I call a Blue Book game. I go over the main points of my setting like feudalism means players' weapons must be carefully hidden and there is a business system of contracts extending from King to Duke to Baron to Knight down to Villein. People outside of this contract system exist living hardscrabble but have the necessary freedom (and motivation!) to be adventurers. I have a Wiki for further reading but I do bring new players' attention to names explaining that “BoB” is not a name for an Elf. Naming fantastic races is the most I encroach upon the player and they tend to want to play Humans anyways. I also touch on the player social contract: my game has a political element to it that will become more of the game at higher levels. I do not foresee endless dungeon crawls and right there I have given them a clue and made my contract for what I want to play. I avoid encouraging player novelizations. I have had new players wax poetic about backstories but I pay them no heed at the start. Level 2 in my game is an accomplishment with a story all its own. I will get a refresher from players then or at level 3 and chances are the original backstory will encumber the player unfamiliar to my realm and its countries. Gamers tended to hand me 5 printer pages of Drizt fanfic I file in the circular bin anyways. That’s just the way I roll. Due to the specific nature of my game, being a way for people to meet new people and have a social network away from home, I opted for an ongoing campaign game. BUT, every player plays a Blue Book game which is a one-shot and with only one other player in that game. Players cannot die in a Blue Book game but it has risk just like a real game. The benefit for me is that new players get a taste of my system of play (which includes my seating people in a circle around me to speed combat) and the players get a buddy so they are not overwhelmed by a table of limitless players. I have GM’d for as many as 12 at one time and let me tell you having that seating was deuce important for me! Blue Books are designed as a kind of GM made backstory how they meet another player and, as I openly tell the players, to get them to the larger group in the Target Town. Examples: A Thief and a Ranger arrive in a town together. Ranger looks for a mentor (players need a mentor to level in my game) and finds out that this mentor has been away for a very long time and he runs a whorehouse as a base of operations. The thief goes to the local Fixer looking for work. It just so happens he needs someone found who double-crossed him, known to travel with an accomplice, and the property returned. The Ranger player, deciding to wait out the mentor’s return, discovers one of the whores has been badly beaten by the two guys the Thief is after. So, seeing as he does not have the money for training and there are no jobs on offer (and if there were he is the only Ranger currently in town) he joins the Thief with an aligned, non-competitive assignment. Travel. Wandering monster. Arrival to Target Town. End Blue Book. Fighter noble arrives in the nearest town to sell his stuff. He has refugeed North from a Humanoid invasion upon his lands (discussed with the player during interview) and has a cartload of stuff and a horse. Unfortunately the town is poor and it is suggested that the Target Town will fetch him a better price for his furnishings and such like goods. He needs a Ranger to guide him because all sorts of instant-death monsters besiege the trade route. In fact, trade has been stopped for months, which is why he can find no buyers. The local Ranger offers him some apprentice guide. Along the way, this apprentice Ranger double-crosses the player leaving him in unfamiliar territory with only a general direction to go and angry kobolds to face by the next afternoon. Lucky for him, the players were out clearing a sacred tomb and they met… The Fighter was first to join the larger table. He made previsions to sell his stuff. He got a low price. And sold a box he did not realize he even had. Well, silver is silver. The Thief and Ranger were later to join the larger table. They discovered that the two men they were tracking had hidden the Fixer’s property inside a box loaded onto a wagon. They met up with the two level 1 NPCs, had a battle and discovered that the wagon owner had been duped and the wagon was not where it should have been. Another player wanted to play an Elf Thief. So I had this person spy on the party for the Elves. The Blue Book was really straightforward: collect information on the party, position herself in wait for them, and join them through some ruse. While she was waiting - and I played this waiting in-game by the way - and deciding to eat a granola, she saw a Human wandering alone in the area her information (interacting with me as NPCs) informed her the party would be headed. Was this a member of the party? Maybe. Then a Giant Wasp attacked this person who appeared to be searching for something. What to do?
She attacked the wasp and Storked all her rolls. The unarmed NPC went down. She then went down. To 0 HP. I stopped the game.
She arrived at the larger group game with this backstory. The party equipped and ran their errands and then I announced the time when they were done. (I keep track of game time.) This took about 15 minutes as one guy was unsure what to do. The party needed nothing beyond what they had but I enjoy the “you’re sure?” trailing finish to my sentences too much not to use it. So they were real anxious to get going and a little confused where the player sitting in their midst was on the field.
They came across her as she was battling the wasp, which I narrated faithfully according to the Blue Booking. The party engaged the wasp and saved the player and found the NPC. They suspiciously questioned the NPC and let the player join seeing as she owed them her life. Isn’t abstract reasoning divine?
And I do this sort of thing in Blue Booking for everyone…
As for railroading…. There is a certain amount of railroading in the Blue Booking. Players are given a one-shot task or, as in the last story, an on-going task; which will result in the party thieves finding much-needed thief mentors through their Elf Thief player contact. Ahh collaboration to put a smile on the faces of strangers.
Also mentors are a good source of fetch quests and information (about national politics, for one example). With the impending doom hanging over Target Town, a council was called of an elderly Human Cleric and aged Elf Wizard (two much needed mentors for the party). They offered help IF the party would clear out an old tomb of kobolds. The Fighter arrived with good timing, chased like Indiana Jones, by Kobolds. (He left his horse harnessed to the stuck in the mud wagon that everyone went back to collect.)
My sessions are role-play heavy: meaning lots of dialogue, props and facial expressions. I ignore expression between players but advise them to notice me when I play an NPC. The above Cleric wears reading glasses; Wizard has a broomstick staff; the Fixer has ferret mannerisms, and the whorehouse manager is Harvey “sport” Keitel. I try to make my game play as player skill centric as possible.
That’s what I got for you. Hope you found it useful. I like what you’ve done as you can tell from some of our shared GM mechanics.
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Post by jazzisblues on Jan 11, 2013 7:36:16 GMT -8
When gm'ing for new players I have a few fairly simple rules.
1. Keep it simple
Do not give them a complicated problem to solve or a situation with nebulous resolutions that all have both good and bad outcomes. While these things are fun, for a new player they can be incomprehensible, not because the new player isn't smart enough for them but because much of their brain is occupied with figuring out this whole game and role playing thing.
2. Give them something exciting pretty much right off the bat
Fights are engaging, it gets players into the idea of the game, it also gives them an idea of how their character works in the game. It doesn't have to tie into anything with the story, it certainly can, but it doesn't have to.
3. Keep concerns about rules for you (the gm) to worry about.
Let them think about playing their character and what they want to do, not about complex rules and how mechanics work. I want the player's attention focused on the game not on their character sheet.
4. Under the head of keep it simple, don't blow them away with powers and abilities they won't be able to internalize.
I think it's a bad idea to give new players a medium or high level character to play. Low level characters and low level problems are the simplest way to get them involved and moving in the right direction. Too much too soon will confuse and frustrate them.
5. Keep it somewhat light hearted
New players are (imho) not the best people to try out that dark evil plotline with all the graphic violence of a Quentin Tarrantino movie. There will be time enough for that later.
Just my 2 krupplenicks worth, your mileage may of course vary.
JiB
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freyki
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 86
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Post by freyki on Jan 11, 2013 16:15:21 GMT -8
My point 6. for new roleplayers: Let them be awesome!
Also, any of the Dirty Pleasures from the Risus Companion will work here, but being awesome is just the easiest for me to remember right now...
-Freyki-
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Post by Forresst on Jan 12, 2013 1:46:38 GMT -8
The one thing I've found works extremely well with noobs is to a) make their character with them, explaining every bit step by step, b) make their first short play session a solo session where you narrate out how they got to wherever they're going to start the game itself, and c) try to give them something cool to chew on right away.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jan 12, 2013 15:16:18 GMT -8
I'm running these Pathfinder Beginner Box games for four noob players at the wife's bookstore. Paizo has done a great job of creating a easily playable engaging gateway box set. The four pregens are sitting out for the players to pick from a map/minis to visualize the various situations. We only play for two hours, combats are intentionally simplified and abbreviated to allow the pcs a chance to experience an entire story arc in two hours (be it ever so brief). Then when they come back for more i start adding details and complexity.
The 400+ page bullet stopper Core Pathfinder book can be a bit intimidating to a person new to RPGs.
Make it simple, accessible, and fun!
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Feb 4, 2013 13:46:52 GMT -8
creativecowboy, JiB, and others, thanks mucho.
Creative: that's a mouthful, and an awesome torrent of greatness. I found I've used lots of those things in my first play.
What I found interesting was that I was worried many in the party wouldn't be into the combats, boy as I wrong.
How combats have worked out in both sessions:
1. We are roleplaying for a bit, we get to a situation here a combat is about to occur. BREAK TIME! Everyone goes upstairs to the kitchen, bathroom, drinks, whatever... meanwhile:
2. I setup the battle map or whatever. For the first combat I made a lego version of the tree house/cabin they were fighting towards with trees on the mat. For the second battle I found some hex 3-D plastic tiles in a thrift store, I used this with my hex battlemap to create a mountain pass where they had an encounter. Both times they walk back in the gaming room and were ecstatic to find all the props laid out.
3. They actually enjoyed the combat aspects in some ways more than the RP only in that they knew better what to do... the RP caught them off guard (many are shy types who aren't very actorish, although once I set a tone they became more comfortable)
I've also found from 'interviewing' a few of them after the fact personally to find what they enjoyed and didn't, that many enjoy some amount of railroading, cause otherwise it's "deer in the headlights" or "uh, what do we do now" that creeps in. They want to be led, to some extent.
Anyways, more later...
This should be a topic on a show!
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Feb 4, 2013 14:13:37 GMT -8
Thank you very much for your recognition, tomes. I appreciate feeling vital and useful. The outro interview is an excellent idea. I have had trouble using it with gamers, who were trying to interview me rather than openly express themselves beyond general platitudes. Noobs tend to appreciate the reassurance of this follow up technique. After all, to them it is only a game not the centre-piece of their self-concept. Of course, your experience may vary and I hope it does. I agree with you about this being an important skill THE WHOLE HOBBY needs to practice - and thus a strong show topic. I am of the opinion that one of the reasons the hobby is considered a mature market is because no one attracts new-to-the-hobby players. Hard to be attracted by people like [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001931/ ]Mr. Peacock[/url] here: whatever.scalzi.com/2012/07/26/who-gets-to-be-a-geek-anyone-who-wants-to-be/My anecdotal evidence supports the hypothesis of the hobby overrun with these Sheldon Cooper types. creativecowboy, JiB, and others, thanks mucho. Creative: that's a mouthful, and an awesome torrent of greatness. I found I've used lots of those things in my first play. What I found interesting was that I was worried many in the party wouldn't be into the combats, boy as I wrong. How combats have worked out in both sessions: 1. We are roleplaying for a bit, we get to a situation here a combat is about to occur. BREAK TIME! Everyone goes upstairs to the kitchen, bathroom, drinks, whatever... meanwhile: 2. I setup the battle map or whatever. For the first combat I made a lego version of the tree house/cabin they were fighting towards with trees on the mat. For the second battle I found some hex 3-D plastic tiles in a thrift store, I used this with my hex battlemap to create a mountain pass where they had an encounter. Both times they walk back in the gaming room and were ecstatic to find all the props laid out. 3. They actually enjoyed the combat aspects in some ways more than the RP only in that they knew better what to do... the RP caught them off guard (many are shy types who aren't very actorish, although once I set a tone they became more comfortable) I've also found from 'interviewing' a few of them after the fact personally to find what they enjoyed and didn't, that many enjoy some amount of railroading, cause otherwise it's "deer in the headlights" or "uh, what do we do now" that creeps in. They want to be led, to some extent. Anyways, more later... This should be a topic on a show!
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