carrotandstick
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Post by carrotandstick on Mar 27, 2013 23:32:02 GMT -8
It had to happen eventually. And I love to tinker, and the actual play podcasts inspired me, so...here 'tis: happyjacks.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gurps&action=display&thread=1873My goal is to be able to play a Legend of the 5 Rings game with GURPS with the absolute minimal messing with the default rules. I think I've succeeded. Mostly. Because $#%& Shugenja. and being complicated. If you die-hard L5R aficionados to take a look at my 98% playable pottering (the core stuff is down if you're confident enough to ad-lib which spell belongs to which Ring and don't want to play a Monk) and spout feedback on my choices thus far I would be quite honoured. ;D
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Post by The Northman on Mar 29, 2013 8:31:54 GMT -8
L5R is one of the best system-to-setting relationships in gaming. Turning it into a generic system makes me sad.
That being said...
You've got a nice start to a samurai-focused campaign and/or Rokugan itself, but there's going to be a ton of work involved if you want to bring in the depth of the ancestor options, techniques that differentiate the various schools, etc. Since those are some of the things that I think makes the original game great, I can't see playing it in any version without those things.
I think what you have could be very fun, but I don't think it will ever be able to mimic the feel of L5R and the things that make it unique without an incredible time investment on your part.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on Mar 29, 2013 9:12:01 GMT -8
I know NOTHING about GURPS so I can't really give you an opinion, sorry.
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
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Post by carrotandstick on Apr 1, 2013 15:09:39 GMT -8
L5R is one of the best system-to-setting relationships in gaming. Turning it into a generic system makes me sad. That being said... You've got a nice start to a samurai-focused campaign and/or Rokugan itself, but there's going to be a ton of work involved if you want to bring in the depth of the ancestor options, techniques that differentiate the various schools, etc. Since those are some of the things that I think makes the original game great, I can't see playing it in any version without those things. I think what you have could be very fun, but I don't think it will ever be able to mimic the feel of L5R and the things that make it unique without an incredible time investment on your part. The fact that L5R's setting is so tied into its gaming system is, I feel, a weakness. L5R 4e's almost arbitrary spell slot system has always felt off to me, and I would be more enamoured with the school techniques if the game mechanic bonuses they provided actually translated into something real-world. There is no explainable reason why a Crab Bushi's armour suddenly can absorb more impact because of training any more than a Crane bushi's katana suddenly being more lethal. Why does a Hida scout's jade ration suffer Shadowlands decay at half rate? This a mystical process, and his school involves no magical or religious training. There's just too much stuff in there that feels...gamey. For such a rich world, it's almost an insult. Converting all of this (the ancerstor optional rules? We talking 4e version?) to GURPS would, in the end, violate the cardinal rule of system conversion; convert the setting, not the rules. Differentiating schools is easy and doesn't require a codifide system of "You must take these 5 abilities in order" because that would defy the point of moving to GURPS. I will make suggestion templates for a starting graduate for the schools but they will be simple and cheap to encourage character differentiation, and entirely optional. Cookie-cutter and pseudo-class-based character rigidity is one of the reasons I wanted to convert the setting over in the first place, because I adore the setting. But the Roll & Keep system, especially its implementation into L5R, has its flaws that I feel GURPS can handle cleaner and smoother. I have played and run L5R 3e and 4e before, and had a lot of fun. This conversion is both to see if GURPS can clean up what I percieve as the flaws of the system without creating notable new ones, and because I just wanted to see if it was possible. The end result of this conversion is not going to be the L5R R&K system with different dice. If that's what you were expecting, that's not what you'll find. What I hope to accomplish is to see if the Rokugan setting can be modelled using GURPS with as little modification to the core rules as possible. So far, the answer is yes. For those of you that love R&K, rock on. For those that love them some GURPS and have always wondered about Rokugan as a setting, a-hold on to your hats. =)
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Post by The Northman on Apr 2, 2013 3:59:27 GMT -8
The fact that L5R's setting is so tied into its gaming system is, I feel, a weakness. L5R 4e's almost arbitrary spell slot system has always felt off to me, and I would be more enamoured with the school techniques if the game mechanic bonuses they provided actually translated into something real-world. There is no explainable reason why a Crab Bushi's armour suddenly can absorb more impact because of training any more than a Crane bushi's katana suddenly being more lethal. Why does a Hida scout's jade ration suffer Shadowlands decay at half rate? This a mystical process, and his school involves no magical or religious training. There's just too much stuff in there that feels...gamey. For such a rich world, it's almost an insult. Converting all of this (the ancerstor optional rules? We talking 4e version?) to GURPS would, in the end, violate the cardinal rule of system conversion; convert the setting, not the rules. We're going to be too deep into 'agree to disagree,' territory for me to contribute a whole lot, but I'll at least say that becoming more deadly with a weapon or learning to move and roll with blows to make armor more effective is hardly a fantastical concept. My initial post wasn't meant to say that you couldn't make a perfectly fun version of what you're trying to do. Only that for me, the minutae of the world is part of the draw if I'm going to play L5R, and things like learning the next technique of my school, knowing that there's a mechanical difference in my character because he's a direct descendent of X, etc., is something that would turn this into far greater of a project than I'd personally invest my time in. If you're less concerned with those things, then you're going to have a good setting governed by a solid system that will be plenty of fun - it just wouldn't feel like L5R for me.
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
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Post by carrotandstick on Apr 2, 2013 14:55:47 GMT -8
We're going to be too deep into 'agree to disagree,' territory for me to contribute a whole lot, but I'll at least say that becoming more deadly with a weapon or learning to move and roll with blows to make armor more effective is hardly a fantastical concept. Don't be afraid to disagree; I learn more that way. I posted in the L5R board for this kind of feedback! =) Phrased that way, it makes a lot more sense, and I'm pretty sure it can be modelled. The school techniques seemed more of a gameplay conceit than a part of the world to me - martial arts contain hundreds of techniques rather than a uniform five! That said, is this magical five techniques per martial form a part of the lore? How deep in the lore of Rokugan are the schools, their techniques and their rivalries? If they're very very important I might write analogues for the school techniques up, just not in a linear progression, but if the five rank system part of the lore because it was a part of the game and not the other way around I may discard it. My initial post wasn't meant to say that you couldn't make a perfectly fun version of what you're trying to do. Only that for me, the minutae of the world is part of the draw if I'm going to play L5R, and things like learning the next technique of my school, knowing that there's a mechanical difference in my character because he's a direct descendent of X, etc., is something that would turn this into far greater of a project than I'd personally invest my time in. If you're less concerned with those things, then you're going to have a good setting governed by a solid system that will be plenty of fun - it just wouldn't feel like L5R for me. The Ancestor tables from 2e and 3e would still be, with a minimum of tinkering, perfectly applicable to GURPS. In fact, I might add that to my to-do list; the friend who introduced me to L5R loved them and used the 2e and 3e tables even after 4e came out, rather than the 'ghostly ancestor' variant they introduced. Are there any other bits of setting/system interlace that you feel are important to getting the feel of Rokugan 'right' or that I may simply have overlooked? I have Iaido duelling rules in mind that are basically the 4e rules for simplicity's sake, and because the 4e rules and short, sweet and simple. Again, thank you for disagreeing. It won't be everything it can be unless I have L5R aficionados poring over my work with a big red pen. =P In the end, it might not feel like L5R, but it HAS to feel like Rokugan.
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Post by Stu Venable on Apr 3, 2013 14:13:04 GMT -8
Do you have GURPS Thaumatology?
It's a book of alternate rules for the default magic system. I'm betting you could pick and choose some rules to approximate L5R shugenja.
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Librarian
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Post by carrotandstick on Apr 3, 2013 14:26:11 GMT -8
Do you have GURPS Thaumatology? It's a book of alternate rules for the default magic system. I'm betting you could pick and choose some rules to approximate L5R shugenja. The Lord of Douche himself appears! =) Already have - the basic write-up is in the GURPS forum. Shugenja prayer magic uses Ritual Casting from GURPS Basic and Threshold Magic from GURPS Thaumatology. I had to revise the Threshold chart a little, making it a bit more thematically appropriate by blending in some parts of the Spirit Magic critical failure chart, and changing the threshold recovery rules slightly. I will also be going over GURPS Magic a college at a time and assigning them a Ring. I want to leave the prerequisite trees the same because a) a lot of though went into them so they made sense, both thematically and gameplay-wise and b) dear god I am NOT writing all new prerequisite trees for the entirety of GURPS Magic. Just no. =P
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