maxinstuff
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Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
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Post by maxinstuff on May 23, 2013 3:09:03 GMT -8
But.... but.... Jib is a veritable font of knowledge!! Light in the darkness!! We need people like him on the show - otherwise pretty soon you will need one of these at your gaming table:
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Post by Kainguru on May 23, 2013 5:48:23 GMT -8
It was mentioned, the game that should never be named, I'd like to issue a challenge for anyone brave enough to run That Game at Jackercon and it must include said anal calipers . . . Aaron
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Post by shadrack on May 23, 2013 6:13:54 GMT -8
Um...
Nova Praxis is okay, I found Strands of Fate to kind of not be Fate enough for me.
I'm really excited about the Fate core conversion of Eclipse phase that is in production now! (it was a stretch goal of their recent Transhuman Kickstarter. (the 2nd to last one, or maybe the last, I don't know if they got that last one)... (wanders off to look at kickstarter)
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daniel
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 217
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Post by daniel on May 25, 2013 9:09:31 GMT -8
Hmm you know honestly i dont think i would react well to the DM telling me to Roll to hit with a fire ball, my inner rules lawyer would come right the hell out at that point and an argument would probably ensue. Witch is likely counter to the idea of being "Fast and loose"
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on May 25, 2013 11:00:58 GMT -8
Right. In my Pathfinder group house rules are talked about before being introduced in game.
I start games with "I want this to be a minatures free session so how about aoe spells can be targeted without worrying about grids...but you need to make a roll just no 1 or 2..does that sound fair ?"
Then we'd try it and take a vote to keep or ditch the houserule. Making if up in game is likely going to be seen as a dick move...
We use a houserule I call the "bloody negatives". When any PC or npc enters into negative hit point land they might be able to continue fighting but they have to roll on a critical hit chart (thank you Warhammer fantasy roleplay)
Now we have a collection of heroes with scars, nicks, missing digits. No amputees yet and with mega magic like regeneration at higher levels it won't be a permanent concern but makes fighting more visceral more immersive and scary. And we as a group agreed on it.
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daniel
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 217
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Post by daniel on May 25, 2013 23:23:44 GMT -8
Well yes if the house rules are known, and similarly importation exceptionable to all that's another thing. I was talking about the GM just pulling it out mid game. Although just on a rules level i think i would set it more like a DC 5 witch is what i believe hitting a 5ft square is by the rules, DC 5 or 10 i forget.
*Stuffs rules lawyer back down*
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mrcj
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 173
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Post by mrcj on May 26, 2013 6:52:08 GMT -8
Two quick thoughts.
One, JIB don't listen to that douche.
Two, as a GM I have had problems with thesbians falling off the horse on the other side when it comes to role play during combat. If each turn is one second, the player doesn't have time for monologues and crazy extended actions. Certainly the character's personality should inform their combat play, but please keep it short.
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Post by ayslyn on May 26, 2013 11:23:13 GMT -8
Well yes if the house rules are known, and similarly importation exceptionable to all that's another thing. Very much this.
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Post by jazzisblues on May 28, 2013 12:04:47 GMT -8
Hmm you know honestly i dont think i would react well to the DM telling me to Roll to hit with a fire ball, my inner rules lawyer would come right the hell out at that point and an argument would probably ensue. Witch is likely counter to the idea of being "Fast and loose" I can see the logic (depending on the system) of having an attack roll (though this could just as easily be encompassed into the skill roll to create said fireball to begin with) to have the newly born fireball land where you intended it to. In many games this is hand waved and it is assumed that the fireball (or other magical attack) goes precisely where the caster wants it to. It wouldn't necessarily have to though. JiB
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 12:34:53 GMT -8
I just listened to this episode and when I got to the point where Stu said, that there are ppl out there who don't know how to play GURPS because they make 8pt flowcharts and helpsheet and naturally, I felt like I was - in Stus terms - part of the problem.
Now, I understand that there are as many ways to play GURPS as there are GMs running GURPS games, if somebody doesn't want to use hitlocations, don't. If somebody doesn't like damage types, don't use them... if you don't like help sheets. Don't effin use them! Now, english is not my first language and I might not have grasped the irony but Stu sounded pretty firm in his stance that "those that do, play the game wrong"... which I think is not correct!
So, what do YOU think? Can't you just live and let live?
Cheers
Onkl
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Post by Stu Venable on May 28, 2013 13:37:36 GMT -8
This is a reaction to several comments I've received over the years from people who've tried GURPS and were turned off to it, because they were overwhelmed by the rules, probably because they played with a GM who insisted on using the complete rules, even for new players.
I don't think there's a wrong way to play GURPS, but I certainly believe there is a wrong way to teach (or introduce new players to) GURPS.
If you try to play the rules in their entirety from the beginning, without any previous experience with the system, you are likely to pass on it and try something else. Teaching the game in an incremental way, by introducing rules concepts a bit at a time, will ease players into it. This makes it more likely they'll enjoy themselves and be willing to play more GURPS.
And this is backed up by the way combat rules in the GURPS books are presented.
That said, when I run a GURPS campaign, once the players are up to speed, I like to play with full tactical combat rules, with hit locations, etc. It's then that you see the power of a simulationist system.
As for my comment about the huge combat chart. There exists (I tried to find it, but my search skills are failing) a document, about 4 pages long, written in very small type, that goes line by line providing every attack roll modifier in the game.
If there are people out there who go through that chart to make sure they have every possible to hit modifier, they're going to take 15-20 minutes per player turn.
I would never play the game that way. But if people are playing that way and are enjoying themselves, that's great.
"If you're having fun, you're doing it right" does not preclude us from having opinions about how to play the game.
If we didn't have such opinions and comment on them, we would have a show at all.
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daniel
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 217
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Post by daniel on May 28, 2013 14:34:47 GMT -8
jazzisbluesI think mainly my direction of discontent with that would be using an attack roll, if it would be necessary i would make it a caster level + Caster mod check or something along those lines (In the version of the heavily house ruled 3.5 we use to play it would likely be a spellcraft check). I am not oppose to the idea of it, i am just oppose to the penalization of it with a stat that is not exactly grate on a spell caster such as a wizard namely there attack roll.
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Post by Stu Venable on May 28, 2013 15:07:51 GMT -8
Bill (who is the one who originally made the comment) comes from a GURPS background, where mages have to roll to cast the spell (an IQ based roll) and then roll for spell throwing (a DX based skill) to land the fireball where they intend.
His mindset is NOT in D20, so he wan't advocating requiring a roll where the rules don't call for one. He was (probably) assuming that a spell caster requires a roll and if he makes it, it's placed properly without having to take the time to count squares.
This is a misunderstanding of systems.
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Post by jazzisblues on May 28, 2013 15:34:50 GMT -8
jazzisbluesI think mainly my direction of discontent with that would be using an attack roll, if it would be necessary i would make it a caster level + Caster mod check or something along those lines (In the version of the heavily house ruled 3.5 we use to play it would likely be a spellcraft check). I am not oppose to the idea of it, i am just oppose to the penalization of it with a stat that is not exactly grate on a spell caster such as a wizard namely there attack roll. I would think (and this is me spitballing off the top of my head) that a wizard's attack roll if one were needed would should be based on their ability to cast spells, not on their ability to aim a bow or a sword. Other systems use different means to target spells. I was just observing that I can see the logic that would indicate the need for an attack roll of some kind not what form that attack roll would take. JiB
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maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
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HJRP0919
May 28, 2013 16:02:41 GMT -8
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Post by maxinstuff on May 28, 2013 16:02:41 GMT -8
Bill (who is the one who originally made the comment) comes from a GURPS background, where mages have to roll to cast the spell (an IQ based roll) and then roll for spell throwing (a DX based skill) to land the fireball where they intend. Its worth pointing out as well that the 'spell throwing' (fireball or magic missile etc.) skill in gurps is unique - and separate from the generic 'throwing stuff' (rocks, knives etc.) skill. This means that a magic user usually will have a few points in this despite it being DEX based - and probably have a sensible target number as a result. Unless of course you deliberately created a mage who hurls enormous but wildly innaccurate fireballs (FUN!!).
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