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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2013 16:45:37 GMT -8
am new to tabletop RPG's. I have been playing some Pathfinder recently on roll20 and I have enjoyed it quite a lot. But I'd also like to try being a GM. I don't want to run a standard cookie-cutter hero save the kingdom story. I came up with this idea for a campaign to run either on roll20 or IRL. It's an evil PC only campaign, the players would start off as a dirt poor street gang in a medieval high fantasy version of the fictional city of Roanapur from Black Lagoon. the players goal would be to build up a criminal syndicate and drive out all of their rivals for control of the city. as the players become more more successful they'd be able to create NPC lieutenants that would serve to run aspects of the organization such as drug manufacturing and distribution or protection. I would also have them have illegal weapons limiting their ability to get more powerful items and magic weapons. With the advantage of this being that the players would eventually have large amounts of gold to be able to just buy out right magical items. as the players become more more successful they would be attacked by the other mobs and because the city is carefully balanced by the four pre-existing organized crime groups the city would plunge more and more into chaos, until eventually the players drive out or kill all the competition.
I have hopefully come up with a way to keep the players from killing each other First resurrection's not allowed generally my head hurt at the implications of a potentially immortal society depending on how much money you have. The second is that the new character that the play would take over would be one of the previous NPC lieutenants and they are one level below the now dead character. And that the group's primary income would be from activities performed between encounters, with the amount of money being decided based on skill rolls, for example the player with craft alchemy skill would roll twice, first determine the purity of the drugs they are selling and the second being how many they have to sell. Thus players repeatedly killing each other would mean they are permanently poor and that magical items would be virtually unattainable for them until they get to about level 15.
I'm looking for general advice on all facets, general GM advice, story and campaign creation advice, and advice if running an evil campaign is even a good idea.
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Post by The Northman on Jun 20, 2013 3:31:26 GMT -8
I'll give you the same advice I give anyone who wants to attempt an evil campaign.
One of the things that makes a game 'work,' is party cohesion. It's why I'm a big fan of L5R single-clan games, Dark Heresy since it gives you all an organization to be a part of from the jump, etc. The characters need a reason to work together if you want to rise above the 'meet in a tavern, kill shit, take stuff,' stereotype. Just because you're dealing with people whose moral compass allows them to sink lower in pursuit of whatever their goals are doesn't change that.
In fact, playing in an evil game might make it more important. Characters who are by nature less altruistic are going to need an even better reason to be working together and exhibit loyalty. I don't buy that mechanical penalties are the best way to do that. Instead, give them a reason why their 'us,' trumps the 'them(s)' every time.
I've used insurgency as a backdrop for a non-good campaign before, where the characters were all part of a conquered people fighting a guerrilla war against a much more powerful empire. Family ties or ethnic groups can work, too, and would be very important in light of your mafioso idea. Organized crime was almost always dominated by immigrants, second-class citizens, and the poor due to their legal means of earning a living and protecting their families being limited by the majority. Just create connections that make betrayal less likely - if it happens with one character it's dramatic. If it happens every session it's tiresome.
Remember: every mob movie seems to have a part where the true psychopath in the group (read: chaotic evil) goes too far and gets whacked. The whole point of Organized Crime is that it's organized.
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Post by jazzisblues on Jun 20, 2013 5:04:30 GMT -8
Two words, "Common Purpose." If you give the characters common purpose you give them a reason to be together and a reason to not kill one another. Also, people are guided by motivated self interest, evil characters even more so. If you make it in their best interests to work together to their common purpose, et voila. As the gm you will need to be watchful though because if something ever outweighs that common purpose, or if their self interest shifts things can turn very ugly in a big hurry.
I played in a Pathfinder game that was titled, "the Evil League of Evil." No we didn't have a horse leading the league though we did break into song more than once. The point was we were evil characters trying to get into this organization. It was in our best interests to work together. That, however, did not stop me from (a) killing one party member, (b) going around to all the other party members and asking them if they would mind if I killed another party member and (c) stealing all the best loot while they were busy celebrating their victory.
Evil characters are hard to maintain over time though.
Cheers,
JiB
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jun 20, 2013 7:50:40 GMT -8
I'll give you the same advice I give anyone who wants to attempt an evil campaign. One of the things that makes a game 'work,' is party cohesion. It's why I'm a big fan of L5R single-clan games, Dark Heresy since it gives you all an organization to be a part of from the jump, etc. The characters need a reason to work together if you want to rise above the 'meet in a tavern, kill shit, take stuff,' stereotype. Just because you're dealing with people whose moral compass allows them to sink lower in pursuit of whatever their goals are doesn't change that. In fact, playing in an evil game might make it more important. Characters who are by nature less altruistic are going to need an even better reason to be working together and exhibit loyalty. I don't buy that mechanical penalties are the best way to do that. Instead, give them a reason why their 'us,' trumps the 'them(s)' every time. I've used insurgency as a backdrop for a non-good campaign before, where the characters were all part of a conquered people fighting a guerrilla war against a much more powerful empire. Family ties or ethnic groups can work, too, and would be very important in light of your mafioso idea. Organized crime was almost always dominated by immigrants, second-class citizens, and the poor due to their legal means of earning a living and protecting their families being limited by the majority. Just create connections that make betrayal less likely - if it happens with one character it's dramatic. If it happens every session it's tiresome. Remember: every mob movie seems to have a part where the true psychopath in the group (read: chaotic evil) goes too far and gets whacked. The whole point of Organized Crime is that it's organized. I definitely agree with all of that! Evil campaigns in my experience often quickly devolve into an opportunity for PC's to jump so far away from any sort of heroic ideal that it becomes an exercise in exploring personal depths of depravity. Thinking on movies like Goodfellas, Godfather, Bronx tale (most Martin Scorsese films...) I think having familial ties be they adopted or otherwise would be a great way to start. Maybe they are all survivors of the same orphanage that got burned down by another big bad force. What might help give an evil campaign staying power and keep the game gritty and more street level is to set it in a city/state/country with an overly repressive Lawful Evil style ruler/government. Its always fun to kill nazis... And if the idea of character resurrection bothers you...GET RID OF IT. Just let players know at the beginning that raise dead and similar spells are either totally unavailable or extremely expensive or come at a cost (like potential demon possession ). Out of a desire to keep my Pathfinder games more gritty I have a house rule called "The Bloody Negatives": - Upon reaching 0 hit points make a DC 10 CON test to stay on your feet
- Upon reaching Negative hit points make a DC 10 adding bloody hit points to DC (-3 hit points equals a DC 13)
- Borrowing from Dark Heresy I have player roll on critical effect table based upon severity of negatives
No lost limbs yet...but lots of scars. "You see that rent on my right shoulder...got that from a fuckin flesh eating zombie back in '03". Finally getting out of the bloody negatives takes more effort...every negative hit point requires 5 points of magical healing. My biggest problem with Pathfinder is how quickly it can devolve into a video game feel with huge bonuses and ridiculous levels of hit points. I plan on ending the campaign we are in somewhere around tenth level. Good luck! Sounds like it could be fun.
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Post by evilgingerdm on Jun 21, 2013 12:34:56 GMT -8
+1 to Common Purpose
I've been running an Evil version of the Pathfinder Kingmaker Adventure Path with a group of CE characters for about 3 years. We've only had 1 instance of them turning on each other, and that was because they found out the Anit-Paladin character was seeking out his Long lost mother and was attemting to redeem himself and atone for his actions. Other wise, the Characters all worship the same Evil deity, which help keeps them in line. When the work well together, their Godess blesses them, when there is in-fighting, they are punished.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2013 19:40:20 GMT -8
thank you all for the advice, this is greatly helping me in refining the early parts of the campaign. to help maintain party cohesion there back story will be that they all grew up together, and there led by an older sibling figure will give them early mission objectives, and will eventually be assassinated by one of the large syndicates and that the group left equate one of their loan in order to get revenge.
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Post by Malex on Jul 1, 2013 16:16:26 GMT -8
There's a Pathfinder Adventure Path.... "Way of the Wicked" I think, which is an evil campaign.
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