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Post by CreativeCowboy on Jul 2, 2013 6:29:36 GMT -8
I think there should be something in the RAW in a role-playing game about role-playing but that, I have to admit with my Pathfinder game upcoming this weekend, is just me.
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Post by Kainguru on Jul 2, 2013 6:46:41 GMT -8
BTW hippies are still hippies . . . Can't trust 'em, small hands, smell like cabbage. Deep roll playing is but one aspect of a very long list of hippy shit one must object to before they infest the world like mung bean flatulent zombies. Myself to a group a hippies one day who were lounging around my house and telling me to 'relax man, its all too tense put on the whale sounds record so we can relax yeah' : "Any more fucking relaxed and you'd all stop breathing you smelly bastards . . . " Aaron
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Post by Stu Venable on Jul 2, 2013 7:15:09 GMT -8
I get the fact that they're playtesting, so they are mostly concentrating on mechanics.
But if you're going to release it out to the public you should at least make it entertaining. It's for public consumption, right? Then it's marketing, too -- not just playtesting.
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Post by Kainguru on Jul 2, 2013 7:41:12 GMT -8
I get the fact that they're playtesting, so they are mostly concentrating on mechanics. But if you're going to release it out to the public you should at least make it entertaining. It's for public consumption, right? Then it's marketing, too -- not just playtesting. To min maxing mother fuckers it is entertaining. Aaron
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Post by Stu Venable on Jul 2, 2013 10:35:48 GMT -8
I stand corrected.
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jul 2, 2013 10:42:48 GMT -8
Math porn.
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Post by inflatus on Jul 2, 2013 11:02:51 GMT -8
I am confused. Is this another "system" thread?
I watched the video last night. I think everyone at WoTC has their own groups they play with. These five do not play together. Their group dynamic was boring.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Jul 3, 2013 18:10:58 GMT -8
I'm 20 minutes in so far and this is a fucking snoozefest. Jesus. If the "D&D Master" Mike Mearls was running a game for me and pulled this shit, I'd be playing Angry Birds on my Samsung Galaxy by now. The game is nothing but "Make an [Attribute] check. Now sit there and listen to this massive info dump that I would've told you regardless of what your check result was." Feh. If things don't get more interesting in the next 20 minutes, I'm out.
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maxinstuff
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Post by maxinstuff on Jul 3, 2013 18:40:10 GMT -8
I'm 20 minutes in so far and this is a fucking snoozefest. Jesus. If the "D&D Master" Mike Mearls was running a game for me and pulled this shit, I'd be playing Angry Birds on my Samsung Galaxy by now. The game is nothing but "Make an [Attribute] check. Now sit there and listen to this massive info dump that I would've told you regardless of what your check result was." Feh. If things don't get more interesting in the next 20 minutes, I'm out. You have given it more chance than I. I haven't so much as pressed play
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Jul 3, 2013 18:53:51 GMT -8
What can I say @maxinstuff. I'm a masochist with a rage addiction problem. I like to inflict pain on myself by reading the WotC D&D Next articles, and then complain about them. Someone should really set up a D&D Next intervention for me...
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Post by Arcona on Jul 3, 2013 23:11:25 GMT -8
I would just want to point out that a bad DM or bad players (gasp how could you!) dont mean D&D Next is bad... they just mean that for some reason WOTC chooses bad people for the job of doing this stuff and that said people are just not... good.
I am sure that if you put in front of them the 1st edition or 2nd edition or 3rd edition books and adventure nothing would have changed. They would still be a bunch of bored individuals that probably get paid to do this hence make a half-assed effort instead of enjoying it.
Give me DnD Next, the equipment and the adventure and I will make in an emotional rollercoaster along with my usual group.
PS> I also like how CC managed to sidestep the issue he himself raised by simply... ignoring it when he was challenged.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Jul 4, 2013 1:01:26 GMT -8
You're absolutely right, @Arcona. I'm not saying that D&D Next is bad based on this AP. Frankly, I don't feel as if I actually saw enough of the system in action to make any kind of judgement call on it.
What I am critiquing is the performance Mearls and Co. gave. WotC didn't just randomly snatch these people off the street and have them run a D&D Next game. This is Mike Mearls the Senior Manager for the D&D R&D Team, James Wyatt a writer for D&D, Greg Bilsland a content producer for D&D, Rodney Thompson a designer for D&D Next, and Peter Lee another designer for D&D. These are the people either at the head of, or involved in the creation of the D&D Next ruleset. I would expect them to know how to run a decent game or be decent players.
As @Stu said, this AP is a marketing tool for WotC. This AP is supposed to excite the current D&D fans and get them pumped up for the release of D&D Next. It's supposed to show potential new players what the game is about and what happens in a D&D session. It's also supposed to showcase the new system which has been in development for Giving a mediocre (at best) performance, either as a player or a GM, doesn't help do any of that, does it?
On top of that, this lackluster performance from people intimately involved in the D&D Next creation process doesn't exactly instill a lot of confidence in me. Can someone compose an awesome song if they can't also play a musical instrument? Can someone become a respected movie critic if they don't have any acting or writing experience? Sure, I suppose so. But having that ability or experience sure helps. Mike Mearls being a mediocre GM and the others being mediocre players doesn't mean that they can't design a great game system.
But them putting on a decent performance and displaying that they know how to be a good GM/player would've given them a lot more cred in my book.
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jfever
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Post by jfever on Jul 4, 2013 17:42:05 GMT -8
Ok. Finally, we all can agree that The WotC AP's ARE IN FACT MARKETING TOOLS. Good. Glad that happened.
I'm glad I don't have to hear any of that "this AP was for old school gamers" bullshit. Finally, we can just get WotC's crap efforts at putting together AP's for marketing purposes.
Personally, I was amped up by the pre-4E podcasts. I felt that WotC did a good job on those. These 5E ones are trash. Why?
Because they are obviously making as much efforts to appeal to the munchkin. This means two things:
1. It will make a fair amount of money, as munchkins purchase as many books as possible so they can grok the living fuck out of it. 2. It will continue down the same path of attrition based, super player powerful, WoW centric thinking that we are used to from 4E. Same design goal, different maths.
I would urge you to look at the article: 1d8.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-evolution-of-fighter-in-d-take-3.html
I started a thread about it before, but I feel it was ignored because it made a real great argument that couldn't be refuted by d20 slaves, and it didn't get a cool "fire folder" pic.
Yes, the article is from February, 2013, but not much has changed about the math in 5E through their updates. This edition of D&D will be the most player powerful edition yet. The battles will go on forever, nobody will be in fear of their PC's lives, and everyone will fulfill their power fantasies to the fullest.
If you're into that sort of thing, more power to you. I'm not touching this edition with a 10 foot pole.
I'm like a liberal/conservative who watches FOX News/MSNBC with D&D Next: Just paying attention to point out it's flaws. Me = douchebag
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Post by Kainguru on Jul 4, 2013 18:24:50 GMT -8
I don't think your older post was ignored it was just too hard to refute. Plus the playtest was early days . . . But as you point out the math has hardly altered (when it was expected to). I think the RPG hobby is approaching the point of redefining its split. It used to be OSR against the rest of the world with the rest of the world sneering at the OSR. When the real split is about RPG's as either empowerment fantasies (munchkinism) or challenges against adversity (the opposite of munchkins ie: embracing disads as an opportunity to RP). This split exists in modern games and OSR - and there where always OS games that catered for both fantasies 'back in the day'. D&D, though, has with each successive edition moved closer and closer to empowerment fantasy as the standard. However even in 1st ed these characters existed - eg: Paladin 14th level with psionics and an 18/00 STR plus a Holy Avenger Sword and near max hitpoints in +5 full plate armour with the Cavalier subclass option from Unearthed Arcana giving 90% resistance to mind spells plus immune to fear plus protection from evil aura and weapons of choice. Such a character could, with effort and time, be built in 1e. Hell, I've allowed such a character to be bought to the table rather than argue about it . . . Didn't last long in the one shot though because the mindset that goes with that sort of player tends to lead to an early death. The point being that just because the game mechanics support it doesn't mean that it has to be so. The character cited above was quite RAW 'legal' in 1e BUT who would accept it or want to play it? MUNCHKINS!! They've always existed they will always exist they're like cockroaches - doesn't matter how many you kill more keep appearing, so why fret? Aaron
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Post by ayslyn on Jul 4, 2013 23:01:25 GMT -8
I started a thread about it before, but I feel it was ignored because it made a real great argument that couldn't be refuted by d20 slaves, and it didn't get a cool "fire folder" pic. Five pages is ignored? Good to know.... And, it's nice to know that disagreeing with you means that a person is just a mindless fanboy, and not just thinking you're wrong.... I won't speak for others, but I didn't dispute that the APs were marketing tools. I disagreed with what group they were marketing towards with them. Neither this, nor the Mines AP are aimed at bringing BRAND SPANKING NEW players into the hobby. These are for people who already know role-playing, and D&D, and were disenfranchised by the drastic change that was 4e. That demands a different approach than one that would be targeting new entrants into the hobby. I don't think your older post was ignored it was just too hard to refute. It was remarkably easy to refute, and I did so in the other thread.
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