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Post by The Northman on Aug 10, 2013 3:45:31 GMT -8
With a 2-person party and epic intentions, one of our friends has decided to run a Pathfinder campaign using the old gestalt rules.
For those unfamiliar, gestalt characters choose 2 classes which advance at the same time. Any class features that overlap (BAB, hit dice, saves) do not stack, instead choosing the highest bonus available. Unique class features, like spells, advance as normal.
I've got a few ideas I'm playing with right now, but nothing ready to go. The setting is unevolved at this point, but he's stated there will be a heavy religious presence, so a lot of my plans are focusing on at least one divine class.
Anyone have any old favorites or new combos that Pathfinder has made possible?
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Post by muntjack on Aug 10, 2013 7:05:41 GMT -8
I'd refer you to Azuretalon. I'll send him a text and let him know about this thread. He's done that once before, and he's changing the rules slightly to run another soon.
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Post by The Northman on Aug 11, 2013 5:41:21 GMT -8
Cool, thanks. I played in a 3.5 version a long time ago, and it's loads of fun if you're looking for a way to add a little power and a lot of versatility to a small party. My ideas are clashing with the notion that anything other than full BAB + full caster seems like a wasted opportunity.
Unless you go Oracle/Sorcerer. Pew Pew!
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Post by stork on Aug 11, 2013 18:49:31 GMT -8
Try Paladin/Sorcerer since they are both charisma based. I made one in a 3.5 game years ago, and it did nicely. Make him a half-ling and get the charisma and dex bonus.
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maxinstuff
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Post by maxinstuff on Aug 11, 2013 19:53:06 GMT -8
Try Paladin/Sorcerer since they are both charisma based. I made one in a 3.5 game years ago, and it did nicely. Make him a half-ling and get the charisma and dex bonus. Halfling Pally/Sorcerer?? Minmaxer!!!
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Post by The Northman on Aug 14, 2013 7:31:33 GMT -8
Current ideas on the docket:
The area of the world in which the beginning game is set has recently been taken over by a religious revolution with a very restrictive view on magic and other gods. Effectively, in a world where gods were always disembodied ideas, a living one showed up, formed his cult, and started a crusade a few generations ago. I'm leaning toward my character being a former member/soldier/whatever of said group, who now takes part in a sort of underground railroad for sorcerer/oracle types and others born into magical talent. Maybe even without having 'officially,' abandoned my post for added tension, but that will largely depend on what I'm playing.
Inquisitor with the 'Heretic' archetype is my strongest leaning for 1/2 the character so far, but that's not set in stone.
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Post by jazzisblues on Aug 14, 2013 11:10:44 GMT -8
It seems to me that the instant a "god" shows up in the flesh the concept of faith goes out the window. What does faith mean when you can see the "god" in the flesh and have witnessed their power first hand?
JiB
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Post by The Northman on Aug 15, 2013 7:06:04 GMT -8
Well that's why he had such an easy time of it, I suppose. Bear in mind this is still a typical fantasy setup in that there have always been clear signs that gods exist, such as the empowering of clerics and other divine classes. But those forces never actually showed up - then again, just because he says he's a god...
Hell, I'm not even the GM, but the point is that faith in most fantasy settings is already a strange thing. How do I know my god is real? FLAMESTRIKE!
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Post by rickno7 on Aug 23, 2013 17:59:09 GMT -8
I've always struggled with the ambiguous faith dilemma.
The closest aproximation to it in real history(as in our actual myths) is Greek Mythology. Heroes spoke and communed with their gods from time to time, but the dilemma was "does this god really have MY best interests at heart?" or "am I just another cog to this god? or does he really care about us as beings and not just prayer numbers".
We think about Faith being just about "faith in existence" but it is more than that. Its Faith in that the god you chose is the correct god to choose. That the god is what you have been lead to believe. Its faith in that the god you chose has the correct plan for the universe, the right path. You could absolutely know that there is a real god, but if you think he's got it all wrong and his plans are bullshit and unfair, I wouldn't call you faithful.
In the past I have tried to give my clerics temptations of faith. Not the temptation of deciding there is no god, but the temptation that a new faith or a different deity stands closer to the player's beliefs than the one he is currently worshiping. Or maybe the god they are worshiping has a great defeat or loses a large amount of their power, if all the benefits are no longer there, will the cleric stay faithful to their deity or move on to something else?
That's not a complete "fix" for the kind of faith I'd like to have in my games, but it at least allows crisis of faith in a D&D-centric fantasy world.
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Post by The Northman on Aug 24, 2013 2:49:14 GMT -8
I probably need to play something in heavy armor, given the likely witch/sorcerer or oracle/sorcerer choice from my partner in crime, but damn...finally reading Heroes Die is making me want to be sneaky and mean...
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Post by Luckstrider on Nov 2, 2013 4:58:17 GMT -8
Don't worry about armor, try working with combat expertise and a dex-y guy! I love gestalting. I usually played monk/clerics or monk/faith caster from a 3.0 splat book.
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Nov 3, 2013 13:01:51 GMT -8
I've always struggled with the ambiguous faith dilemma. The closest aproximation to it in real history(as in our actual myths) is Greek Mythology. Heroes spoke and communed with their gods from time to time, but the dilemma was "does this god really have MY best interests at heart?" or "am I just another cog to this god? or does he really care about us as beings and not just prayer numbers". We think about Faith being just about "faith in existence" but it is more than that. Its Faith in that the god you chose is the correct god to choose. That the god is what you have been lead to believe. Its faith in that the god you chose has the correct plan for the universe, the right path. You could absolutely know that there is a real god, but if you think he's got it all wrong and his plans are bullshit and unfair, I wouldn't call you faithful. In the past I have tried to give my clerics temptations of faith. Not the temptation of deciding there is no god, but the temptation that a new faith or a different deity stands closer to the player's beliefs than the one he is currently worshiping. Or maybe the god they are worshiping has a great defeat or loses a large amount of their power, if all the benefits are no longer there, will the cleric stay faithful to their deity or move on to something else? That's not a complete "fix" for the kind of faith I'd like to have in my games, but it at least allows crisis of faith in a D&D-centric fantasy world. I have begun to fuck with my players sense of faith by creating a world that is dominated by a monotheistic religion that rewards its followers equally regardless of alignment or action. Power is based solely upon the strength of belief in whatever they choose to believe in...this has resulted in higher clergy that believe whole heartedly in a corrupt system get as great a power as those that focus on doing 'good deeds'. Now the morale dilemma of doing 'good deeds' for only the sake of doing them is starting to creep in...the paladin is having a crisis of faith because the higher clergy while seeming to wield tremendous divine power are doing rather despicable things. The often failing attempt at 'personifying' beings of nigh infinite power and unfathomable motivations has been swapped out with a very cold, distant power that rewards all that choose to 'believe in whatever they believe in'. We shall see how that unfolds. I predict some "why have you abandoned me moments?" from our devout cleric and shadowed past paladin...
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willh
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Post by willh on Nov 7, 2013 10:17:46 GMT -8
That's not how polytheism works. Gods are like kitchen appliances. When you want toast, you pull out the toaster. When you want coffee, you go to the coffee maker. You don't stick with the toaster. If you're going into battle you go to Gorum. If you're going on a journey you go to Desna.
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Post by rickno7 on Nov 7, 2013 14:26:15 GMT -8
That's not how polytheism works. Gods are like kitchen appliances. When you want toast, you pull out the toaster. When you want coffee, you go to the coffee maker. You don't stick with the toaster. If you're going into battle you go to Gorum. If you're going on a journey you go to Desna. I wasn't talking about staying within the same polytheistic family. Its sort of like being a worshiper of Thor then going to Greece and finding out their lightning god is the head honcho. Then again, people in real life don't tend to shop around for gods like that... but then again AGAIN we don't live in a world where the gods walk the earth quite like they do in most fantasy games. In the usual Dungeons and Dragons game style, you absolutely do pick the toaster and keep with the toaster IF you're a cleric. That's sort of the point, that you worship toaster so strictly/strongly that the toaster eventually grants you bread browning powers.
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willh
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Post by willh on Nov 7, 2013 20:27:46 GMT -8
Your D&D cleric is like a toaster salesman who has a sales reward program. If he does a good job selling* toasters he gets special rewards. Some will be directly related to toasting bread, but some won't be. While he might try to convince you to spend your money on a new toaster instead of a coffee maker, he shouldn't deny the role the coffee maker plays in the kitchen, nor should he try to get coffee out of a toaster. Now, this guy is really going to like toast and will structure his life in a way that toast will meet the majority of his needs, so he probably won't be looking for coffee all that often.
*In theory at least. A D&D clerics advancement is loosely, at best, connected to being a good cleric. In reality he climbs up the rewards program by committing lots and lots of murder.
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