Reason I Left The Hobby #938
Sept 6, 2013 1:04:51 GMT -8
Post by CreativeCowboy on Sept 6, 2013 1:04:51 GMT -8
I debated posting this in the General Forum but I think this is a debate for Gaming Discussions. Were I to find this funny, I would have posted it with the kitty photos. But I do not. I also think a banish with laughter tactic, with its wide application, is innappropriate in this case. Your mileage may vary.
Below is a system agnostic posting from a Facebook group full of **CENSORED** (obligatory tautological statement for dullards: in my opinion, not yours, but you can share your opinion or LIKE mine) that focuses on one highly probably reason people have diverted their focus away from our hobby and funnelled their time into whatever other (perhaps lesser) interest they may have rather than make time for RPGs. This means, to me, that sometimes when they tell you they cannot make your game it is because they are feeling this perception from the majority of people around them because of their association to the whole hobby and there is actually nothing wrong with your game.
AND THAT IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE YOU CANNOT FIX THAT ALONE. (You can be a part of the fix but you will have lost your player if not your friend is what I mean.) I posted my comment to this on Facebook (via my girlfriend's profile) and will repost it as the first comment here.
Who or what the group caters to in RPGs matters not unless I want to engage some troll here in an edition war flame contest, which would diminish the topic. I, personally, had a hard time reading this post and only managed to do so by taking breaks. I found it that offensive. You will note, however, I withdrew my passion in my comment. [last names removed - tho this was published obviously on the Internet]
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The following discussion was centered around the attached photo of a character sheet presented to this group. Many, including myself, thought it was in bad taste. Feel free to read over the sheet & the discussion & be your own judge, but it's here to serve as an example of what we prefer not to see here...
Jon does that list languages as English and Ebonics?
Michael V yes sir it is.
John 6'3" Is she the power forward on the Thieves' Guild B-Ball team?
Tim How does a 5th level thief have 58 hit points?
Michael V no was a prostitute.
John Tim, 20 sided Hit Dice? +1 for each level...
Michael V DM's discretion. because of the family line I have a plus 5 to hp every time I level up
Tim "Torn skin tight zebra pants" "ebonics" "daggar" - I think you need to give a context in which you are running this character.
Michael VI roll with with whatever the dm says. if he wants to give the party more a HP. I'm not gonna argue. lol
Chip The hometown is U.S.A........
Michael V Druggie prostitute from Nevada got transported to another world. Puts what skills she has to use to survive and becomes an adventure.
Harold How long has your D.M. been playing/running AD&D?
Michael V the world she got transported to knows very little of Earth. only the well educated or well traveled have ever heard of it. they call earth USA.
Michael V I would say approximately fifteen years. I've only played with his grope for the last three years. it's a very different and customized set of rules. but it's the best grope I've played with.
Harold It sounds very far out there. Not saying it's a bad idea. I just prefer Greyhawk, with my own tweaks on the rules.
Michael V It's challenging but fun game play. she's an addict and i have to do a black womans voice for ten plus hours every Sunday.
Tim No, I think I need a context which makes this sort of racist, sexist foolishness okay to air in public.
Tim I'm uncomfortable with you coming into this clubhouse and showing this off like you expect compliments.
Jake How much political correctness are you expecting from someone flipping the bird in their profile pic . . ?
Michael V you say you're uncomfortable like it gives you some extra lights or something? I'm sharing my gaming experience with whoever cares to look if you don't like it don't look I'm sorry simple as that. the last time I checked this is still America I'm allowed to do this stuff.
Michael V rights*
Michael V its only racist if you make a big deal about it I'm a white male RPGs about stepping out of your shoes the opposite of me is a black female so go f*** yourself
Michael V Your pissed about that. I'm glad I didn't post her bio...
Michael V remember. it might be the most awesome game in existence. it is still a game.
Paul 25 comments and no one noticed the names was "Fuckniqua" this is an obvious troll.
Michael V it tuckniqua. there's a famous family line in the world. which she is a very distantly related.
Michael V I can post her bio. but i don't want to offend people.
Jonathan I'm happy you're having fun with AD&D. The idea of the game sounds interesting but your character does seem a little off color for a online clubhouse. I might be really upset if I was a black person or a woman. That being said, your character is obviously based on negative stereo types that have been around for hundreds of years. It's unoriginal (I haven't seen the bio this is all based on the sheet) and lame. Yes, you should have the freedom to post this but I have the freedoms to tell you how I feel. You might want to rethink having this up in this group. Btw this is not a hateful comment just a friendly opinion/advice.
Adam Another tip, as to his trolldom, is race: human/black. WHAT WORLD is that viable?
Roger Pretty much what I would've said, Jonathan. Didn't sit well with me reading over it.
Michael V just like I said before D&D is a role playing game I am NOT a drugged out black female I am a white male if it is racist it doesn't matter it is just a game if you don't like it do not look at the character sheet. just by reading your comments I can tell some of your campaigns have gone horribly dry and repetitive the group I play with they do not care about stereotypes or racism or hurting other people's vaginas. have a nice day. racism and sexism in this day in age become an issue when people bring attention to them and make them an issue.
Michael V also being offended does not grant you extra rights.
Michael V how about this I'm offended you all didn't like my character sheet. I want some special privileges now please
Darren currently 'paying'?
Ross Nothing here seems overly offensive. Ignorant and immature through and through. Many characters in literature are sterotypes, Stephen King's Susan/Odetta Holmes for example. Pretty much the sterotype of an angry black woman. Right? But she is crafted with such realism and care that we ignore the clear sterotyping. Here however there doesn't seem to be much care. The only sense I get is one of trolldom. It wouldn't be if you had posted the backdrop to the world you are playing in or anything about the game that was actually interesting. However with your profile picture I imagine you are something of a twit, and I would hate to sit across from you. More over its players like you that makes me support PVP. In that I can kill your characters when they are sleeping. OVer and over and over. Grow up and get a real character sheet.
Michael V holey shit. so many panties in a bundle.
Michael V why the f*** would I post the backstory of my campaign all you guys want to do is poke fun of my f****** character. Its very challenging gameplay I enjoy. you guys f****** don't oh god damn well. you're not playing I hope I thoroughly offended you. it was not my goal but now I'm happy I did.
Steven Your trolling powers are impressive..most...impressive.
Michael V no one is acknowledging that playing D&D is about stepping out of who you are. that's exactly what I did and I did it in an unconventional way rather than being another Hobbit thief or a elf thief I decided to be a drugged out female prostitute thief.
Michael V politically correct or not I don't give a f***.
Steven So I've extrapolated you : you don't give a f*** and you like paying a thief.
Michael V yes I like playing a thief, and no I don't give a f***. if you gents will excuse me for now I've got some kittens to bottle feed. be back soon.
Michael V PVP douche. I don't battle sleeping people. They can't fight back.
Tim I don't think they guy is a troll, I think he's clueless. This is the sort of thing that teenagers do, I can't tell how old the poster is but this shit happens all the time in the gaming world.
Please note that I asked for context. There are contexts where this sort of character is okay, and I wanted to be sure to give you a chance to let us know if these conditions were present.
That the first things out of your mouth wasn't "Guys, guys, I know what this looks like but gimme a chance to explain..." it was "Look at this fucking hilarious character I made, she's just like a real negress and I'm going to be all dealing with drug issues while ebonicing in her hilarious accent".
This isn't about PC, it's about you being stupid enough to not even know how to frame your (probably unintentionally) racist parody character.
Tim I'm upset at the racism wrapped up in the character, yes, but I'm really fucking offended at whatever ridiculous welfare state form of D&D houserules you're using. The former is probably so ingrained you can't see it but the latter was a choice.
Tim And as for stepping out of who you are: You are showing us exactly who you are with all the preconceptions wrapped up in this sorry character.
And I need to quote this one in case you edit it out: "its only racist if you make a big deal about it..."
That actually hurts to read.
Michael V I don't see don't know what else to say you guys got so upset over a character sheet over something thats not even real I personally am NOT a racist person. and you're absolutely right I thought wow this is going to be hilarious this n***** is going to be doing drugs sucking dicks and stabbing f****** dwarves in the god damn faces. when I posted it on here I thought yeah some assholes are going to get hurt but others might think wow that is a challenging character to play. sounds fun to play something so different from myself. does that answer your question if not go back and read the conversation cause I've said everything I need to say. whether or not you want to comprehend it or let your anger get in the way that's fine.
Ray feministactivism.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/meme-privilege.jpg?w=300&h=300
Tim I'm not angry, I'm just calling you on it. So are other people here, take a look. I'm doing you and the hobby a service, so that the people who you'd hurt can maybe be spared this in the future.
Michael V if you're hurt by this then you should not have an internet connection by any means way shape or form you should throw your TV in the garbage right now
Tim Go back and reread what I wrote, I covered that.
Ray It's not really appropriate for this group dude. Should be a place free from any kind of bullshit regardless if you can or can't check your privilege.
Jonathan I know I'm not angry. I just think its unoriginal to slap that many stereo types into one character. I assumed that anyone able to understand the simplicity and beauty of AD&D had to be a story telling artist of some kind. I posted my first comment as supportive way for you to give the details needed to give us the information needed. I'd like to see this bio, because its one of two things. 1) ingenious 2) garbage. You've been to defensive to offer any explanation to why you've included certain off color details to the character. Then I see "n****" and I'm thinking this character is the product of a simple mind. Lets see the ingenious bio so this whole thing is way less embarrassing for you.
Michael V do any of you you stereo types in your NPCs?
Kieth Michael V. i just have one question: you play with his GROPE or do you mean group?? lol
Tim Yeah, when I stereotype my elves as Tolkienesque it hurts them as a people.
Michael V regardless of the bio and what it says. to you guys it's garbage so let's just assume it's garbage.
Jonathan Sure do. Drunk dwarves, elves in the woods, hobbits in holes and gnomes tinker.
Tim Gnome tinkers? Go to hell, [JONATHAN].
Jonathan Hey, be nice. We're all friends here.
Jonathan That or this should be thread that we are all really mean to each other for no reason, keep it going for years.
Michael V So then just because the people I'm portraying actually exist it's wrong cruel and insensitive and racist.
Michael V whatever auto corrects a f****** b**** I'm not going to fix it.
Jonathan No it's just in bad taste and lame. But you're having fun doing that so whatever I guess.
Michael V thank you.
Michael V your opinion is your opinion mine is mine but yes I am having fun with my gaming experience
Jonathan But you don't think it's like... Weird to share it in here? Like even a little?
Jonathan I guess that was what I was trying to say all along
Ray Seriously, I've played in games with friends that have questionable character concepts before, they never go parading them around on the internet especially when they have racial slurs on the damned character sheet.
Tim But seriously: I don't think you, Michael V, are consciously doing anything bad. You came here with enthusiasm and I was the first person to pipe up with a comedown. It sucks to have something that seems funny met with criticism.
If you really, really aren't racist then I suggest you consider what JONATHAN said - he seems pretty reasonable. It's easy to be racist/sexist/etc in language and not even notice.
And again: What's hilarious in a friend's basement isn't elsewhere.
Michael V I'll admit posting it on this page was a bad idea. I didn't think there would be so many closed minded peopleagain what is weird and what is bad taste is a matter of opinion. as for reasons for posting it I was again like I said before trying to share my gaming experience with others whether they like it or not is of no consequence to me.
Tim This isn't a matter of opinion. Your words, your character, these things are racist. It's a fact.
Racism is not bad taste. It's the foundation of evil.
Jonathan Tim, can I screen shot you saying I'm reasonable? I want to make it my cover photo. I'll black out names, my friends will get a kick out of it.
Ray It's just in poor taste, you are a member of this community among other people who are multi-cultural, I doubt you would have the balls to show your character sheet to a black woman gamer in person and then tell them its not racist, and your opinion is that its just funny. It's very easy for a white guy to think n***** on a d&d character sheet to think such a thing would be funny.
Michael V I guess what I was trying to convey your characters don't have to be so stereotypical D&D they can be anything literally anything. as long as the DM says its okay.
Micah Tim: Watch the Gnome Tinker bit. I might get offended. ;3
Jonathan I know my buddy Micah would come defend me!
Micah I mean, Primusgnome was a rough PC for me to whip up in 10 hours. However, by the campaign break he had control of a warhorse-drawn, cannon-mounted, caravan. ;3
Ray If you tell your DM that you want to play a non traditional character, thats one thing, if you then decide to make that character a racist stereotype and then post it on a public forum, thats where I believe we take issue.
Michael V if a black woman made a character sheet about a white man I would not be offended at all I would say good luck play him to the best of your abilities but that again is my opinion. yes some things that are said might offend other people but that's a risk we take everyday I will not censor myself for other peoples comforts.
Michael V isn't that called reverse racism?
Ray yeah except white men dont have 200 years of oppression and stereotypes to deal with. Plus you used terminology that is incredibly offensive.
I once played a sexist xenophobic penguin in a metamorphosis alpha game, doesnt mean I post about it on the internet as funny.
Ray Even though my character is really funny.
Jonathan Ray, that's hilarious.
Ray Tim played in that game with me I believe
Jonathan Lets all play a game.
Micah "I will not censor myself for other peoples comforts"
Right. Yet you'll throw stars around the 'fucks' you apparently don't give.
Dude, understand you're being told you crossed a line. Your DM may allow this in game, but your DM doesn't run this clubhouse. Different rules apply. Be cool and abide, or take it back to the table. I think it's been made pretty clear it ain't wanted here.
Keep the change. ;3
Jonathan Micah will DM for us.
Tim I don't play these games, I just stalk these halls looking for rights to wrong.
Jonathan Super Tim! Creating justice where those say shitty things in one online club house!
Tim I hope his GM doesn't show up and house rule that Varney-esque comments are okay and that we all get another 100 bonus hit points.
Jonathan You'd be out of a job then.
Roger "as long as the DM says its okay."
Highly doubt I'd be ok with said DM.
I think the feedback here says it all.
Micah Johnny, I would love to, but I normally only have the time when everyone else can't make it.
Jonathan I only said you because I know you can come up with awesome stories.
Jonathan And you're my homie
Micah Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Michael V the stars around the f**** is from my cell phone I'm using my cell phone's microphone text b******* because I'm actually out in the world living my life.
Michael V if the admins of the page don't like it they can take it down they can still take it down
Michael V I exercised my 2nd Amendment right you guys didn't like it you exercised yours story's done
Ray You mean 1st amendment. 2nd amendment is the right to bear arms.
Michael V I cross the line f*** off are you the D&D police now?
Ray No just decent people who don't appreciate blatant racism on a public forum.
Michael V tolerance is a double edged sword I'll tolerate you but you still have to tolerate me.
Roger Exactly what I intend to do. Take it down. I just wanted to wait until it general consensus was right down front on the table. That isn't the D&D *I* know & love. Doesn't seem I'm alone either. YMMV...
Michael V take it down I'm surprised it lasted this long infringe on people's rights to free speech don't worry about it
Tim Don't take this down, that's a ridiculous diea.
Ray My next D&D character is going to be a fedora wearing libertarian who complains about reverse racism and laments getting friend zoned on ok cupid.
Michael V my post has gotten more comments than everything you've posted in the last week that's why I lasted so long.
Tim Why would you take this down? This is more about D&D than any illustration out of a book or character sheet posting.
Michael V while you're at it go ahead and delete me from the page I will not miss any of you f**** have a wonderful day.
Micah Sexism in one page, racism in another. It's all the same lately: noone wants it in their backyard.
Tim My backyard is full of Varneys, dozens of 'em, howling and rending the air with their claws. I tried using the hose on 'em but no good.
Micah Oh, and let's be clear, you can't wave 'your rights' in our faces when you haven't earned the right to. Go live your life and grow up a little. Maybe somewhere in that timespan you'll learn the delicacies of tact.
Roger I decided on the reverse- delete him, *then* the thread.
Ray We should save this thread as an example, maybe do a disclaimer or a group discussion about what kind of clubhouse we expect this to be.
Tim First off, I don't think Michael V should be deleted. He has one freak out, everybody should get one. Give him a chance.
Second, deleting this thread is a terrible idea. For every bad comment there are four good ones. It shows a stronger community, not a bad one.
Tim If you don't think this thread worth preserving I don't think I'll be sticking around this group.
Roger He asked to be deleted. Too late now. If he decides to comeback, he can try.
Tim All good. Please, please preserve the post though.
Roger The thread'll stay up. Maybe if there's a way to'sticky' it...
Micah Probably a 'pin to top' or something.
Tim I think my greatest success in this thread was introducing the word "clubhouse".
Dan OK this was weird. I understand making a PC that is not a norm character. But flying it in our faces? And he didn't even have the weapon damage filled out or the ability score mods. Like he didn't even have a PH. Good god I would quit too.
Jonathan Does everyone from this game group flip off cameras?
Dan They are not real Jonathan. They can't be. I mean who does that stuff?
Tim They are more real than us, man, they live on the edge with all the finger flipping. The edge.
Paul Unfollowed.
Jake Color me surprised this didn't get deleted
Roger I was going to, Jake. Then was convinced (at least for the time being), that this should serve as an example of what's not wanted here. Maybe I'll convert it to a file/document or something.
Tim Racism is outside of my comfort zone, whether intentional or not. Like I said before, I don't think the guy was intentionally being racist but it WAS ugly and racist and bad. It showed poor judgement to flash that kind of character around publicly and then worse judgement to make bad arguments in its support.
Enthusiasm about gaming is great. Long-term, thoroughly established campaign worlds are mind-blowingly fantastic. Serious character development and exploration in an RPG as wonky as D&D is commendable. Raising kittens and kids and being generally awesome is awesome.
Flashing a character sheet that does what that one did, and appending "LOL" to the post title, isn't great or fantastic or commendable. Blowing up when the peer group you are trying to impress voices dissatisfaction is foolish.
Like I said, I think everyone gets to have a blow up. I wish he hadn't quit the group, honest. I wish he'd stopped for a minute and listened to what everyone had to say and really considered it. There is nothing worse than having enthusiasm met with incredulity, I wish now I'd had the discussion in private messages.
But here's the thing: The character sheet is vile and paints the player in the worst possible light, deserved or not. I don't care if the guy is seriously the best player, the most sensitive soul ever - you can't put that on the internet for strangers to see and expect to see smiles.
I honestly thought at points that I just wanted to give him a hug and have it be over and then he'd write insults and quash my best intentions. I hate to think of the guy walking around simmering over this, that sort of thing sucks. I think the mockery got out of hand at points, and I regret that .
But no, the dude is wrong. It's that simple. You don't do that shit, you don't say it, you don't flash around language that embeds that sort of stuff and that's hard, hard stuff to purge from the system.
And it's not close-minded to say "dude, that's wrong". It's close-minded to have a fit when someone tells you 'no', it's close-minded to look at a roomful of people who have no personal stake in a subject telling you that you need to rethink that they're wrong.
Ross So where one flippy fellow left off another begins.
Roger Thank you, Tim. I never thought the guy was this cross-burning racist at all either.Just felt the character he flashed on here was in bad taste.
Dan I felt that it was done on purpose. To what end I do not know. To get a rise out of some? I still have issue with the fact that the PCs ability and weapon stats were not complete and the HP was way off. Perhaps a two-headed troll PC would have been more appropriate?
Tim The incomplete sheet and the HP thing was explained. The HP thing was a DM one-time bonus and the incomplete sheet was because the player made one for himself because the DM kept the sheets. The player made it from memory.
If this was a troll he was over-subtle.
Dan Yeah I saw the DM allowance. I guess I just never bought it? I read through the entire thread and see no reference to no sheet, no PH memory thing.
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THE DISCUSSION WAS POSTED AS A DOCUMENT. IN THIS FORM I READ IT. THEN I COMMENTED.
Below is a system agnostic posting from a Facebook group full of **CENSORED** (obligatory tautological statement for dullards: in my opinion, not yours, but you can share your opinion or LIKE mine) that focuses on one highly probably reason people have diverted their focus away from our hobby and funnelled their time into whatever other (perhaps lesser) interest they may have rather than make time for RPGs. This means, to me, that sometimes when they tell you they cannot make your game it is because they are feeling this perception from the majority of people around them because of their association to the whole hobby and there is actually nothing wrong with your game.
AND THAT IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE YOU CANNOT FIX THAT ALONE. (You can be a part of the fix but you will have lost your player if not your friend is what I mean.) I posted my comment to this on Facebook (via my girlfriend's profile) and will repost it as the first comment here.
Who or what the group caters to in RPGs matters not unless I want to engage some troll here in an edition war flame contest, which would diminish the topic. I, personally, had a hard time reading this post and only managed to do so by taking breaks. I found it that offensive. You will note, however, I withdrew my passion in my comment. [last names removed - tho this was published obviously on the Internet]
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The following discussion was centered around the attached photo of a character sheet presented to this group. Many, including myself, thought it was in bad taste. Feel free to read over the sheet & the discussion & be your own judge, but it's here to serve as an example of what we prefer not to see here...
Jon does that list languages as English and Ebonics?
Michael V yes sir it is.
John 6'3" Is she the power forward on the Thieves' Guild B-Ball team?
Tim How does a 5th level thief have 58 hit points?
Michael V no was a prostitute.
John Tim, 20 sided Hit Dice? +1 for each level...
Michael V DM's discretion. because of the family line I have a plus 5 to hp every time I level up
Tim "Torn skin tight zebra pants" "ebonics" "daggar" - I think you need to give a context in which you are running this character.
Michael VI roll with with whatever the dm says. if he wants to give the party more a HP. I'm not gonna argue. lol
Chip The hometown is U.S.A........
Michael V Druggie prostitute from Nevada got transported to another world. Puts what skills she has to use to survive and becomes an adventure.
Harold How long has your D.M. been playing/running AD&D?
Michael V the world she got transported to knows very little of Earth. only the well educated or well traveled have ever heard of it. they call earth USA.
Michael V I would say approximately fifteen years. I've only played with his grope for the last three years. it's a very different and customized set of rules. but it's the best grope I've played with.
Harold It sounds very far out there. Not saying it's a bad idea. I just prefer Greyhawk, with my own tweaks on the rules.
Michael V It's challenging but fun game play. she's an addict and i have to do a black womans voice for ten plus hours every Sunday.
Tim No, I think I need a context which makes this sort of racist, sexist foolishness okay to air in public.
Tim I'm uncomfortable with you coming into this clubhouse and showing this off like you expect compliments.
Jake How much political correctness are you expecting from someone flipping the bird in their profile pic . . ?
Michael V you say you're uncomfortable like it gives you some extra lights or something? I'm sharing my gaming experience with whoever cares to look if you don't like it don't look I'm sorry simple as that. the last time I checked this is still America I'm allowed to do this stuff.
Michael V rights*
Michael V its only racist if you make a big deal about it I'm a white male RPGs about stepping out of your shoes the opposite of me is a black female so go f*** yourself
Michael V Your pissed about that. I'm glad I didn't post her bio...
Michael V remember. it might be the most awesome game in existence. it is still a game.
Paul 25 comments and no one noticed the names was "Fuckniqua" this is an obvious troll.
Michael V it tuckniqua. there's a famous family line in the world. which she is a very distantly related.
Michael V I can post her bio. but i don't want to offend people.
Jonathan I'm happy you're having fun with AD&D. The idea of the game sounds interesting but your character does seem a little off color for a online clubhouse. I might be really upset if I was a black person or a woman. That being said, your character is obviously based on negative stereo types that have been around for hundreds of years. It's unoriginal (I haven't seen the bio this is all based on the sheet) and lame. Yes, you should have the freedom to post this but I have the freedoms to tell you how I feel. You might want to rethink having this up in this group. Btw this is not a hateful comment just a friendly opinion/advice.
Adam Another tip, as to his trolldom, is race: human/black. WHAT WORLD is that viable?
Roger Pretty much what I would've said, Jonathan. Didn't sit well with me reading over it.
Michael V just like I said before D&D is a role playing game I am NOT a drugged out black female I am a white male if it is racist it doesn't matter it is just a game if you don't like it do not look at the character sheet. just by reading your comments I can tell some of your campaigns have gone horribly dry and repetitive the group I play with they do not care about stereotypes or racism or hurting other people's vaginas. have a nice day. racism and sexism in this day in age become an issue when people bring attention to them and make them an issue.
Michael V also being offended does not grant you extra rights.
Michael V how about this I'm offended you all didn't like my character sheet. I want some special privileges now please
Darren currently 'paying'?
Ross Nothing here seems overly offensive. Ignorant and immature through and through. Many characters in literature are sterotypes, Stephen King's Susan/Odetta Holmes for example. Pretty much the sterotype of an angry black woman. Right? But she is crafted with such realism and care that we ignore the clear sterotyping. Here however there doesn't seem to be much care. The only sense I get is one of trolldom. It wouldn't be if you had posted the backdrop to the world you are playing in or anything about the game that was actually interesting. However with your profile picture I imagine you are something of a twit, and I would hate to sit across from you. More over its players like you that makes me support PVP. In that I can kill your characters when they are sleeping. OVer and over and over. Grow up and get a real character sheet.
Michael V holey shit. so many panties in a bundle.
Michael V why the f*** would I post the backstory of my campaign all you guys want to do is poke fun of my f****** character. Its very challenging gameplay I enjoy. you guys f****** don't oh god damn well. you're not playing I hope I thoroughly offended you. it was not my goal but now I'm happy I did.
Steven Your trolling powers are impressive..most...impressive.
Michael V no one is acknowledging that playing D&D is about stepping out of who you are. that's exactly what I did and I did it in an unconventional way rather than being another Hobbit thief or a elf thief I decided to be a drugged out female prostitute thief.
Michael V politically correct or not I don't give a f***.
Steven So I've extrapolated you : you don't give a f*** and you like paying a thief.
Michael V yes I like playing a thief, and no I don't give a f***. if you gents will excuse me for now I've got some kittens to bottle feed. be back soon.
Michael V PVP douche. I don't battle sleeping people. They can't fight back.
Tim I don't think they guy is a troll, I think he's clueless. This is the sort of thing that teenagers do, I can't tell how old the poster is but this shit happens all the time in the gaming world.
Please note that I asked for context. There are contexts where this sort of character is okay, and I wanted to be sure to give you a chance to let us know if these conditions were present.
That the first things out of your mouth wasn't "Guys, guys, I know what this looks like but gimme a chance to explain..." it was "Look at this fucking hilarious character I made, she's just like a real negress and I'm going to be all dealing with drug issues while ebonicing in her hilarious accent".
This isn't about PC, it's about you being stupid enough to not even know how to frame your (probably unintentionally) racist parody character.
Tim I'm upset at the racism wrapped up in the character, yes, but I'm really fucking offended at whatever ridiculous welfare state form of D&D houserules you're using. The former is probably so ingrained you can't see it but the latter was a choice.
Tim And as for stepping out of who you are: You are showing us exactly who you are with all the preconceptions wrapped up in this sorry character.
And I need to quote this one in case you edit it out: "its only racist if you make a big deal about it..."
That actually hurts to read.
Michael V I don't see don't know what else to say you guys got so upset over a character sheet over something thats not even real I personally am NOT a racist person. and you're absolutely right I thought wow this is going to be hilarious this n***** is going to be doing drugs sucking dicks and stabbing f****** dwarves in the god damn faces. when I posted it on here I thought yeah some assholes are going to get hurt but others might think wow that is a challenging character to play. sounds fun to play something so different from myself. does that answer your question if not go back and read the conversation cause I've said everything I need to say. whether or not you want to comprehend it or let your anger get in the way that's fine.
Ray feministactivism.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/meme-privilege.jpg?w=300&h=300
Tim I'm not angry, I'm just calling you on it. So are other people here, take a look. I'm doing you and the hobby a service, so that the people who you'd hurt can maybe be spared this in the future.
Michael V if you're hurt by this then you should not have an internet connection by any means way shape or form you should throw your TV in the garbage right now
Tim Go back and reread what I wrote, I covered that.
Ray It's not really appropriate for this group dude. Should be a place free from any kind of bullshit regardless if you can or can't check your privilege.
Jonathan I know I'm not angry. I just think its unoriginal to slap that many stereo types into one character. I assumed that anyone able to understand the simplicity and beauty of AD&D had to be a story telling artist of some kind. I posted my first comment as supportive way for you to give the details needed to give us the information needed. I'd like to see this bio, because its one of two things. 1) ingenious 2) garbage. You've been to defensive to offer any explanation to why you've included certain off color details to the character. Then I see "n****" and I'm thinking this character is the product of a simple mind. Lets see the ingenious bio so this whole thing is way less embarrassing for you.
Michael V do any of you you stereo types in your NPCs?
Kieth Michael V. i just have one question: you play with his GROPE or do you mean group?? lol
Tim Yeah, when I stereotype my elves as Tolkienesque it hurts them as a people.
Michael V regardless of the bio and what it says. to you guys it's garbage so let's just assume it's garbage.
Jonathan Sure do. Drunk dwarves, elves in the woods, hobbits in holes and gnomes tinker.
Tim Gnome tinkers? Go to hell, [JONATHAN].
Jonathan Hey, be nice. We're all friends here.
Jonathan That or this should be thread that we are all really mean to each other for no reason, keep it going for years.
Michael V So then just because the people I'm portraying actually exist it's wrong cruel and insensitive and racist.
Michael V whatever auto corrects a f****** b**** I'm not going to fix it.
Jonathan No it's just in bad taste and lame. But you're having fun doing that so whatever I guess.
Michael V thank you.
Michael V your opinion is your opinion mine is mine but yes I am having fun with my gaming experience
Jonathan But you don't think it's like... Weird to share it in here? Like even a little?
Jonathan I guess that was what I was trying to say all along
Ray Seriously, I've played in games with friends that have questionable character concepts before, they never go parading them around on the internet especially when they have racial slurs on the damned character sheet.
Tim But seriously: I don't think you, Michael V, are consciously doing anything bad. You came here with enthusiasm and I was the first person to pipe up with a comedown. It sucks to have something that seems funny met with criticism.
If you really, really aren't racist then I suggest you consider what JONATHAN said - he seems pretty reasonable. It's easy to be racist/sexist/etc in language and not even notice.
And again: What's hilarious in a friend's basement isn't elsewhere.
Michael V I'll admit posting it on this page was a bad idea. I didn't think there would be so many closed minded peopleagain what is weird and what is bad taste is a matter of opinion. as for reasons for posting it I was again like I said before trying to share my gaming experience with others whether they like it or not is of no consequence to me.
Tim This isn't a matter of opinion. Your words, your character, these things are racist. It's a fact.
Racism is not bad taste. It's the foundation of evil.
Jonathan Tim, can I screen shot you saying I'm reasonable? I want to make it my cover photo. I'll black out names, my friends will get a kick out of it.
Ray It's just in poor taste, you are a member of this community among other people who are multi-cultural, I doubt you would have the balls to show your character sheet to a black woman gamer in person and then tell them its not racist, and your opinion is that its just funny. It's very easy for a white guy to think n***** on a d&d character sheet to think such a thing would be funny.
Michael V I guess what I was trying to convey your characters don't have to be so stereotypical D&D they can be anything literally anything. as long as the DM says its okay.
Micah Tim: Watch the Gnome Tinker bit. I might get offended. ;3
Jonathan I know my buddy Micah would come defend me!
Micah I mean, Primusgnome was a rough PC for me to whip up in 10 hours. However, by the campaign break he had control of a warhorse-drawn, cannon-mounted, caravan. ;3
Ray If you tell your DM that you want to play a non traditional character, thats one thing, if you then decide to make that character a racist stereotype and then post it on a public forum, thats where I believe we take issue.
Michael V if a black woman made a character sheet about a white man I would not be offended at all I would say good luck play him to the best of your abilities but that again is my opinion. yes some things that are said might offend other people but that's a risk we take everyday I will not censor myself for other peoples comforts.
Michael V isn't that called reverse racism?
Ray yeah except white men dont have 200 years of oppression and stereotypes to deal with. Plus you used terminology that is incredibly offensive.
I once played a sexist xenophobic penguin in a metamorphosis alpha game, doesnt mean I post about it on the internet as funny.
Ray Even though my character is really funny.
Jonathan Ray, that's hilarious.
Ray Tim played in that game with me I believe
Jonathan Lets all play a game.
Micah "I will not censor myself for other peoples comforts"
Right. Yet you'll throw stars around the 'fucks' you apparently don't give.
Dude, understand you're being told you crossed a line. Your DM may allow this in game, but your DM doesn't run this clubhouse. Different rules apply. Be cool and abide, or take it back to the table. I think it's been made pretty clear it ain't wanted here.
Keep the change. ;3
Jonathan Micah will DM for us.
Tim I don't play these games, I just stalk these halls looking for rights to wrong.
Jonathan Super Tim! Creating justice where those say shitty things in one online club house!
Tim I hope his GM doesn't show up and house rule that Varney-esque comments are okay and that we all get another 100 bonus hit points.
Jonathan You'd be out of a job then.
Roger "as long as the DM says its okay."
Highly doubt I'd be ok with said DM.
I think the feedback here says it all.
Micah Johnny, I would love to, but I normally only have the time when everyone else can't make it.
Jonathan I only said you because I know you can come up with awesome stories.
Jonathan And you're my homie
Micah Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Michael V the stars around the f**** is from my cell phone I'm using my cell phone's microphone text b******* because I'm actually out in the world living my life.
Michael V if the admins of the page don't like it they can take it down they can still take it down
Michael V I exercised my 2nd Amendment right you guys didn't like it you exercised yours story's done
Ray You mean 1st amendment. 2nd amendment is the right to bear arms.
Michael V I cross the line f*** off are you the D&D police now?
Ray No just decent people who don't appreciate blatant racism on a public forum.
Michael V tolerance is a double edged sword I'll tolerate you but you still have to tolerate me.
Roger Exactly what I intend to do. Take it down. I just wanted to wait until it general consensus was right down front on the table. That isn't the D&D *I* know & love. Doesn't seem I'm alone either. YMMV...
Michael V take it down I'm surprised it lasted this long infringe on people's rights to free speech don't worry about it
Tim Don't take this down, that's a ridiculous diea.
Ray My next D&D character is going to be a fedora wearing libertarian who complains about reverse racism and laments getting friend zoned on ok cupid.
Michael V my post has gotten more comments than everything you've posted in the last week that's why I lasted so long.
Tim Why would you take this down? This is more about D&D than any illustration out of a book or character sheet posting.
Michael V while you're at it go ahead and delete me from the page I will not miss any of you f**** have a wonderful day.
Micah Sexism in one page, racism in another. It's all the same lately: noone wants it in their backyard.
Tim My backyard is full of Varneys, dozens of 'em, howling and rending the air with their claws. I tried using the hose on 'em but no good.
Micah Oh, and let's be clear, you can't wave 'your rights' in our faces when you haven't earned the right to. Go live your life and grow up a little. Maybe somewhere in that timespan you'll learn the delicacies of tact.
Roger I decided on the reverse- delete him, *then* the thread.
Ray We should save this thread as an example, maybe do a disclaimer or a group discussion about what kind of clubhouse we expect this to be.
Tim First off, I don't think Michael V should be deleted. He has one freak out, everybody should get one. Give him a chance.
Second, deleting this thread is a terrible idea. For every bad comment there are four good ones. It shows a stronger community, not a bad one.
Tim If you don't think this thread worth preserving I don't think I'll be sticking around this group.
Roger He asked to be deleted. Too late now. If he decides to comeback, he can try.
Tim All good. Please, please preserve the post though.
Roger The thread'll stay up. Maybe if there's a way to'sticky' it...
Micah Probably a 'pin to top' or something.
Tim I think my greatest success in this thread was introducing the word "clubhouse".
Dan OK this was weird. I understand making a PC that is not a norm character. But flying it in our faces? And he didn't even have the weapon damage filled out or the ability score mods. Like he didn't even have a PH. Good god I would quit too.
Jonathan Does everyone from this game group flip off cameras?
Dan They are not real Jonathan. They can't be. I mean who does that stuff?
Tim They are more real than us, man, they live on the edge with all the finger flipping. The edge.
Paul Unfollowed.
Jake Color me surprised this didn't get deleted
Roger I was going to, Jake. Then was convinced (at least for the time being), that this should serve as an example of what's not wanted here. Maybe I'll convert it to a file/document or something.
Tim Racism is outside of my comfort zone, whether intentional or not. Like I said before, I don't think the guy was intentionally being racist but it WAS ugly and racist and bad. It showed poor judgement to flash that kind of character around publicly and then worse judgement to make bad arguments in its support.
Enthusiasm about gaming is great. Long-term, thoroughly established campaign worlds are mind-blowingly fantastic. Serious character development and exploration in an RPG as wonky as D&D is commendable. Raising kittens and kids and being generally awesome is awesome.
Flashing a character sheet that does what that one did, and appending "LOL" to the post title, isn't great or fantastic or commendable. Blowing up when the peer group you are trying to impress voices dissatisfaction is foolish.
Like I said, I think everyone gets to have a blow up. I wish he hadn't quit the group, honest. I wish he'd stopped for a minute and listened to what everyone had to say and really considered it. There is nothing worse than having enthusiasm met with incredulity, I wish now I'd had the discussion in private messages.
But here's the thing: The character sheet is vile and paints the player in the worst possible light, deserved or not. I don't care if the guy is seriously the best player, the most sensitive soul ever - you can't put that on the internet for strangers to see and expect to see smiles.
I honestly thought at points that I just wanted to give him a hug and have it be over and then he'd write insults and quash my best intentions. I hate to think of the guy walking around simmering over this, that sort of thing sucks. I think the mockery got out of hand at points, and I regret that .
But no, the dude is wrong. It's that simple. You don't do that shit, you don't say it, you don't flash around language that embeds that sort of stuff and that's hard, hard stuff to purge from the system.
And it's not close-minded to say "dude, that's wrong". It's close-minded to have a fit when someone tells you 'no', it's close-minded to look at a roomful of people who have no personal stake in a subject telling you that you need to rethink that they're wrong.
Ross So where one flippy fellow left off another begins.
Roger Thank you, Tim. I never thought the guy was this cross-burning racist at all either.Just felt the character he flashed on here was in bad taste.
Dan I felt that it was done on purpose. To what end I do not know. To get a rise out of some? I still have issue with the fact that the PCs ability and weapon stats were not complete and the HP was way off. Perhaps a two-headed troll PC would have been more appropriate?
Tim The incomplete sheet and the HP thing was explained. The HP thing was a DM one-time bonus and the incomplete sheet was because the player made one for himself because the DM kept the sheets. The player made it from memory.
If this was a troll he was over-subtle.
Dan Yeah I saw the DM allowance. I guess I just never bought it? I read through the entire thread and see no reference to no sheet, no PH memory thing.
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THE DISCUSSION WAS POSTED AS A DOCUMENT. IN THIS FORM I READ IT. THEN I COMMENTED.