Savage
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 18
Preferred Game Systems: Unistsystem & Savage Worlds
Currently Playing: D&D 5th
Currently Running: D&D 5th, Savage Worlds(Interface Zero)
Favorite Species of Monkey: Emperor Tamarin
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Post by Savage on Sept 13, 2013 20:13:32 GMT -8
When having npcs lie to players if players take them at their word I am not doing them a disservice not having Roll their skill that would detect lies if they don't ask to. I also don't roll for how well the npc lies unless they ask to see if they are lying. I just want to make sure they are being to trusting and it's not me being a dick.
John
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maxinstuff
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Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
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Post by maxinstuff on Sept 13, 2013 20:30:34 GMT -8
Roll detect lies for them behind the screen (without telling them what you are doing of course).
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Post by Stu Venable on Sept 13, 2013 22:05:35 GMT -8
I generally agree with what Maxinstuff says, but...
If the players are meeting someone they have never met before, I think they might be at a disadvantage. Detect lies (assuming it's not magical) is using non-verbal cues to determine the truthfulness of the target. If you're dealing with someone with whom they have no prior experience, I think it's okay to just lie to them.
If they ask to make a roll, let them, because that could approximate the *character's* suspicion -- maybe he or she is looking for certain non-verbal cues they've come to recognize in others.
But if it's a stranger, and they're taking the person's word at face-value, let them.
It makes for a more interesting story when they finally realize they were lied to, and (depending on the situation) go and seek revenge.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2013 18:48:31 GMT -8
I've had NPCs lie to players on several occasions, one time almost ended in a PC death because he was ready to drink a poison he'd been convinced was actually going to help him. When they figured out the guy was actually an enemy it made for an epic fight because they truely hated the NPC because of the lies he'd told them.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Sept 14, 2013 18:52:10 GMT -8
The opportunity to play lying, conniving, absolute ruthless bastards is one of my personal great joys as a GM. I personally like to believe I'm a nice person. The opportunity to strap on the absolute monster persona is often a wonderfully cathartic experience. Villains your players can never trust, or learn to hate with every fiber of their being is a mark of a successful campaign.
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Post by bradscott on Sept 14, 2013 23:56:54 GMT -8
Yeah I prefer to provide other clues the PC's might pick up on the discover the person is lying, like conflicting stories from other NPCs or even physical clues.
I had an NPC consult a ledger when asked the last time the person they were looking for was there. Had the PC's themselves had taken a look in said ledger it disagreed with the information they were provided.
When an NPC said an item they had on the shelf in their shop they had gotten recently the PC's picked it up and noticed a mark on the shelf that indicated it had been their longer then the NPC had said.
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Post by jazzisblues on Sept 17, 2013 6:13:26 GMT -8
This is a very situational and subtle thing. I generally lead with the role play and let the players decide for themselves what to think about it. But if the person is lying I try to give clues that might indicate that if the players are being attentive. I rather like maxinstuff's idea of making the perception roll without the players knowing about it and then adjusting what I do accordingly. If they succeed on their perception (or whatever applies) I would make the clues that something is amiss more obvious or I might observe that something doesn't feel quite kosher about what the npc is saying or doing. If the pc's ask if they think he's telling the truth then it's definitely time for them to make a roll. This pretty much falls under the same heading for me as noticing traps and such, passive vs active checking. Cheers, JiB
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Savage
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 18
Preferred Game Systems: Unistsystem & Savage Worlds
Currently Playing: D&D 5th
Currently Running: D&D 5th, Savage Worlds(Interface Zero)
Favorite Species of Monkey: Emperor Tamarin
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Post by Savage on Sept 21, 2013 15:09:25 GMT -8
Thank you all so much for the feedback. It has given me a lot to think about. I am going to add some more information as things have unfolded a bit more since my original post.
The group obtained a portion of a powerful relic linked to the downfall of and unspeakable evil. This piece though also contains the consciousness of the last guardian of the complete relic. This consciousness is also the former owner of a staff one of the other characters is looking for. This the players know for sure and is all true.
The character who has possession of the box is Evelina and since obtaining the box has been momentarily possessed by the Spirit of Mage Prince Norwich. She has also willfully channeled his spirit seeking information.
After the first possession the ran into and killed a recurring enemy who had the books that originally sent them in search of this relic. After the fight while talking with the disembodied Norwick about keeping the enemies Body he possessed Evelina and convinced the group to at least keep the head. While in the next town while doing some research Evelina channeled Norwick to help here translate some text. Norwick took this time to have a quick chat with the head, one of the other players caught a glimpse of this and startled Norwick who return body control to Evelina who remembered nothing of the last few minutes. Evelina asked the spirit if he was talking to the head and he said no.
The current theory by the one of the players (which he has not vocalized in character) is that the head, which they know is that of a necromancer, has been influencing Evelina. As Norwick has denied involvement any time a possession has resulted in shady behaviour. Evelina has just been taking him at his and has kept much of what Norwick says from the party or the fact that he wanted to keep the head of the necromancer.
If this changes your views on my original question I would love the feedback.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using proboards
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Post by inflatus on Sept 21, 2013 17:17:47 GMT -8
The best lies are the ones wrapped in truths. Try that and your players will hate you. Or, dislike you immensely.
It is a bit harder to GM lies within truths but the story is better for it.
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