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Post by Stu Venable on Sept 15, 2013 20:35:24 GMT -8
This is a yearly tradition with the RPG Podcast Listener Survey. Each year the instigators of the survey get together and discuss the results.
This year, since we hit #1, they asked me to host it.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
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Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Sept 16, 2013 10:01:22 GMT -8
HARMLESS?!? How dare you sir! I like to think of Happy Jackers as "Mostly Harmless..." I'm sure that there will be numerous vociferous opinions about this episode. But in the end my take home message is thus: If it weren't for Happy Jacks I probably would not be listening to RPG podcasts...these other folks are probably very charming but there is no way I could see listening to their cranky, schwarminess on a regular basis. It felt like listening to Stu hang out with the comic store guy from the Simpsons... Thanks for keeping it fun Stu! Ah fuck after further listening I realize my blood sugar was probably low...I apologize for the flame like aspect of my above comments. These guys are aright.
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maxinstuff
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Post by maxinstuff on Sept 16, 2013 22:15:13 GMT -8
I love how the most aggressive (and well reasoned) comments are all complaining about things happy jacks does the most.
It proves that they truly are nothing but a vocal minority. May the silent masses prevail! Huzzah!!!
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Post by henryhankovitch on Sept 16, 2013 22:53:44 GMT -8
Re: Eclipse Phase... The RPPR shows you mentioned are the Know Evil series of actual plays. They're fantastic, by the way. I wonder if they're mainly responsible for the bump in Eclipse Phase's popularity in the survey. Which ties into the issue of why people like me enjoy AP podcasts. Stu mentioned the teleplay element, which is definitely a strong part of it. It's very dependent on the personalities involved--I lose interest quickly if the players or their characters are flat or dull. Additionally, listening to APs is a way of peeking into someone else's game for a while. You see how the GM handles the table, or the sort of narrative tricks he uses. You also get a sense of how an unfamiliar game plays. Not necessarily the mechanics--because listening to combat rolls is indeed the most boring thing ever--but the general playstyle or tone of the game. Before listening to RPPR, all I knew about Call of Cthulhu was gamer jokes ("oh, that's the game where everyone goes crazy and dies. And if you ever see a book, just burn it right away, lulz"). RPPR actually made me interested in the game, by showing me how it handled actual horror scenarios, rather than the Paranoia-with-san-points game that the Internet portrays it as.
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Post by shadrack on Sept 17, 2013 5:30:23 GMT -8
Pretty sure I was one of the people that named Chad (from Fear the Boot) as a personality I can't stand. I also enjoy APs. They give me a peek at different rule sets in a different way than I could get just by flipping through the book. But, if the players suck, I can't stand to listen to it. Also, I will agree that podcasts definitely influence my buying habits. I contributed to Ross Payton's (of RPPRs) Base Raiders kickstarter (FATE superheroes). Also, Caleb Stokes (RPPR) had his No Security kickstarter that I contributed to (systemless horror scenarios - it was a ransom, you can go download them for free now). And I contributed to the Eclipse Phase Transhuman kickstarter because their APs got me interested in the setting and system. Hm. So it seems that if you get something out on Kickstarter consider me in for at least a buck, just on principle.
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Post by Kainguru on Sept 17, 2013 7:03:36 GMT -8
Yeah, I don't get the statement "there are these arses on certain podcasts that are arses then you meet them in person and they're like awesome so they should continue to podcast"? I don't know but I think it'll be pretty chilly day in hell before I ever got the opportunity to meet Chad and he'd have to be "one charming motherfucker" to get me to change my mind. Nothing against the guy personally but he's a bit of an arsehat, I was just surprised that this is such a common sentiment - I did reference him, like many others, in my survey comments but didn't go so far as to name him. As to the yet more wankers that think the key to a good podcast is being short, concise and upholding radio broadcast standards and formatting: 'fuck you you anally retentive socially inept easily distractable cuntturds'. Hell yeah the key to success is to break the rules!! Nice shout out for '2 GM's 1Mic' - those guys rock and they BOTH swear like honorary Australians . . . regularly . . . and repeatedly . . . Harmless? . . . mostly harmless? . . . girls & guys we have seriously gotta step up our game a little. We should, at the very least, cause fear and terror at the mention of our names and make the virtuous and mighty soil their pants slightly on be holding our terrible visage . . . Cthulhu demands more of us than '(mostly) harmless' . . . Aaron
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2013 7:04:50 GMT -8
So general comment as I listen and look at the data at the same time but this analysis really needs to apply some actual statistics (Disclaimer: Or actually put it into the results, I don't know if any statistical analysis has actually been done). The hosts on the show keep saying things have changed just based on the charts going up or down but eyeballing a lot of the charts I'd have said a number of the differences would fall into just natural variation as opposed to actual change.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2013 7:53:33 GMT -8
Re: Eclipse Phase... The RPPR shows you mentioned are the Know Evil series of actual plays. They're fantastic, by the way. I wonder if they're mainly responsible for the bump in Eclipse Phase's popularity in the survey. Just got to this and the one thing I want to add is to remember that the 2.1% is actually only around 15 people so that could almost be down to the inclusion of a couple of gaming groups that responded with Eclipse Phase or one game group that resulted in it pushing the game over whatever cutoff they used for inclusion in the top games list.
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Post by Kainguru on Sept 17, 2013 10:13:49 GMT -8
So general comment as I listen and look at the data at the same time but this analysis really needs to apply some actual statistics (Disclaimer: Or actually put it into the results, I don't know if any statistical analysis has actually been done). The hosts on the show keep saying things have changed just based on the charts going up or down but eyeballing a lot of the charts I'd have said a number of the differences would fall into just natural variation as opposed to actual change. Yep we've touched in this before - what they call statistics is actual just data presentation. It's a common misnomer from 'data processors' vs 'scientific methodologists' - I assume the you, like me, are from the later group and find this misapplication of the term annoying to say the least. Now if they talked about ANOVA's, t-tests, alpha levels, standard deviations and measures of significance . . . Then we're talking statistics and can infer some sort of meaning from the results. Aaron
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nanoboy
Journeyman Douchebag
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Post by nanoboy on Sept 17, 2013 10:21:34 GMT -8
Regarding Stu's listening habits, I have to suggest he try out BeyondPod. (I think he has an Android phone.) You can put all of your feeds on it, organize a playlist in several ways, and then set it to go. This way, you could listen to some short podcasts on your commute and finish the really long ones later.
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maxinstuff
Supporter
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Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
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Post by maxinstuff on Sept 17, 2013 12:30:50 GMT -8
So general comment as I listen and look at the data at the same time but this analysis really needs to apply some actual statistics (Disclaimer: Or actually put it into the results, I don't know if any statistical analysis has actually been done). The hosts on the show keep saying things have changed just based on the charts going up or down but eyeballing a lot of the charts I'd have said a number of the differences would fall into just natural variation as opposed to actual change. Yep we've touched in this before - what they call statistics is actual just data presentation. It's a common misnomer from 'data processors' vs 'scientific methodologists' - I assume the you, like me, are from the later group and find this misapplication of the term annoying to say the least. Now if they talked about ANOVA's, t-tests, alpha levels, standard deviations and measures of significance . . . Then we're talking statistics and can infer some sort of meaning from the results. Aaron They would require a lot more data a lot more often.
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Post by rickno7 on Sept 17, 2013 13:21:43 GMT -8
I listen while I exercise. If you've seen me in the chatroom, you realize I am there to talk to the other chatroom people, I do my listening to the cast through the week.
I did not like Meg's attitude toward Actual Plays, it reminds me of the people that say "Let's Play" videos on Youtube are stupid as well. Why do I not listen to some of the podcasts of the guest hosts in this episode? Well I heard a lot of "no no no, this sucks, that sucks, screw doing that". You want to know why your audience is shrinking while Happy Jacks is growing? One of the reasons is that Stu is open to change, and open to trying to do what his fans appreciate.
I'm glad Gamer's Table is getting more exposure. They are kind of the opposite to Happy Jacks in format, but the spirit is very compatible. What I mean is, their episodes are short, edited, and very focused on topic. Sometimes heavily edited stuff can seem sterile, like a newscast, somehow Gamer's Table avoids this and keeps a "friends hanging out and talking" feel to it. Also their AP's are the total opposite of HJ podcasts. They are heavily edited, have sound effects and really go into being a Radio Drama. They are brilliant, especially Victoriana and Star Wars.
Walking Eye. I was hyped about this show. I liked the hosts, the sound quality was fine, and the actual play started out SOOOOO well. Then... well ok. Then the group of people getting prepared to slay a new god got waylayed by a group of angry fishermen. They decided to bribe them because apparently a group of angry fishermen is more formidable than a god. I erased the recording once a character tried to pick a fisherman's pocket and the fisherman happened to keep an asp in there to thwart thieves. I may give their other AP's a chance later... but that one... geez.
I've also listened to some more Fear the Boot in the last month, good discussions. I should have more to say, aside from that I liked the show, but I need to listen to more from them.
I don't use a podcast subscription thing at all. I did open up Itunes to subscribe to Happy Jack's podcast, but I haven't reopened Itunes since, I hate it and only did it purely to support the show. I direct download the shows on any show I listen to. I play them through Google Play or VLC on my laptop.
I may be a little older than the whole social media generation. I have too MUCH of an attention span to tolerate 4-5 different programs having "feeds" that fill the screen every time I log in. If I had my way I would ONLY have a G+ account, instead of Facebook and G+, but my extended family are on Facebook and they will never switch. I keep G+ because my internet organizational life is too ingrained into Google to not have one. I refuse to have a Twitter account. Why? Because that's what Facebook is for. Hell, i refuse to even put Facebook or G+ on ANYTHING mobile that I own. Its all just too much.
Game spending. Yeah, the $$$ count goes way up if you include my video gaming. I'd love one day to spend more on Tabletop hobbies than videogaming, but one of the BEST parts of our hobby is the low cost to buy in to it. The only way to introduce mandatory spending in our hobby is to... well create D&D 4E, and we see how many people liked that, didn't we?
Why Pathfinder is successful. I agree with some of the points made. They keep the same people and foster a kind of "we care" attitude that a company like WOTC can only seemingly emulate through a small cloud of Executive speak and investor pandering. Paizo Adventure Paths sell. When Paizo sets up an adventure path, they steer the entire company in that direction. Its sort of like how WOTC does campaign settings for a few months before dropping them. Paizo gets their miniatures lines, card lines, spinoff games, fluff sourcebooks, EVERYTHING set up to coincide with their adventure paths. When they announced the new Path was going to take place in several of the desert nations, my local Barnes and Nobles(closest thing we have to an FLGS) sold out of old sourcebooks dealing with that area. I always thought that if WOTC would treat D&D cycles like their Magic The Gathering "blocks", then they'd be able to market much better. Instead you have the whole industry saying "modules don't sell". Paizo is proving them wrong.
I give a lot of the credit for Happy Jacks having a large female demographic year after year to Kimi. I have to tread carefully here... The shows I will NOT name tend to have female hosts that I have no clue why they are there except for the podcast to say "hey we have a female voice in the group". I want to be clear, I'm not saying they are "fake gamer girls", I despise everything to do with exclusion of anyone. I'm not questioning their "geek" cred, i'm questioning their commitment to their shows. Some female hosts don't comment on topics, or give advice/experiences. Some only read an email or tweet, but then let the other hosts do all the advice. Having a female host on just to pop up and read a tweet is like saying boxing has female participation because of the ring girls. Kimi has her own preferred systems she likes to run and promote, Kimi CREATES her own con games that are amazing, Kimi does more on the podcast than say "that's right Stu". She has her own opinions, her own great gaming advice, and does so much aside from just hosting the show. Other positive "roll" models for female podcast hosts include Shannon from Gamer's Table and Allegra at Walking Eye.
Long podcast with lots of topics, but that's all I can remember to respond on.
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Post by Kainguru on Sept 17, 2013 14:51:15 GMT -8
Yep we've touched in this before - what they call statistics is actual just data presentation. It's a common misnomer from 'data processors' vs 'scientific methodologists' - I assume the you, like me, are from the later group and find this misapplication of the term annoying to say the least. Now if they talked about ANOVA's, t-tests, alpha levels, standard deviations and measures of significance . . . Then we're talking statistics and can infer some sort of meaning from the results. Aaron They would require a lot more data a lot more often. 30 people would be more than enough. All they have to do is compare the significance of differences in each distribution between years and determine if it significant or just a normal variance. More data would just complicate it - keep your data sets simple and relevant. Where they would fall down is in the sampling of the population: it's not as random as one would like and therefore would more than likely introduce an unaccounted confounding variable that would skew the data. But that is still not insurmountable. Hell if you really wanted you could do a qualitative analysis of the comments etc and get a meaningful result from a sample as small as 10. Social science statistics are a bit more airy fairy than hardline sciences . . . Meaningful results can be inferred from much smaller data sets . . . It's a discipline within itself and has all sorts of qualifiers, adjusters and caveats that'd be very interesting for me to ramble on about but a fuck long and fuck boring read for the forum. Aaron
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maxinstuff
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Post by maxinstuff on Sept 17, 2013 15:01:00 GMT -8
They would require a lot more data a lot more often. 30 people would be more than enough. All they have to do is compare the significance of differences in each distribution between years and determine if it significant or just a normal variance. More data would just complicate it - keep your data sets simple and relevant. Where they would fall down is in the sampling of the population: it's not as random as one would like and therefore would more than likely introduce an unaccounted confounding variable that would skew the data. But that is still not insurmountable. Hell if you really wanted you could do a qualitative analysis of the comments etc and get a meaningful result from a sample as small as 10. Social science statistics are a bit more airy fairy than hardline sciences . . . Meaningful results can be inferred from much smaller data sets . . . It's a discipline within itself and has all sorts of qualifiers, adjusters and caveats that'd be very interesting for me to ramble on about but a fuck long and fuck boring read for the forum. Aaron If they assumed that their sample was representative and that there was no selection bias then they certainly could do a lot more sith the numbers. I'm saying it isn't and they shouldn't. P.S. My dad would smash your dad so there.
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maxinstuff
Supporter
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Post by maxinstuff on Sept 17, 2013 15:09:11 GMT -8
Also Kainguru, you are correct that the sample size at each survey is plenty large, so demographical breakdowns like they have done a perfectly legit. For anything that is measured along the time series though they have but 5 points. not sufficient for anything but observing trends (which they have done).
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