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Post by Stu Venable on Oct 5, 2013 21:30:33 GMT -8
Your hosts: Stu, Stork, JiB
If you’d like to contribute to team Grenable for the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation’s Los Angeles 2013 Walk for a Cure, you can do so here.
Show Notes! We discuss some tips for the new GM. We specifically talk a bit about running Call of Cthulhu, and also give some general tips for the new GM. Jerry writes in about a RPG horror story about a legless PC. Brian writes in about “when the map comes out, the role playing stops.”
Another Brian writes in to tell us about a strange, but potentially awesome, school where they use role-playing to teach. Grey asks us where the sweet spot is for missing players. How many can you miss and still play, and at what point should you call the game?
Matt writes in about that infamous E. Gary Gygax quote about time keeping and defends one of the forefathers of our hobby. And our favorite MinMaxer from Chicago writes in with an awesome gaming story where min-maxing saved the day.
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Post by Kainguru on Oct 6, 2013 3:03:58 GMT -8
For the first poster first time GM wanting one shot friendly rules lite high fantasy (basically a rules lite Pathfinder): Castles & Crusades. Get the Castle Keepers Guide as it has guidelines for 'dialling' the game up to get that desired 'high' fantasy feel (personally I prefer a quick trip to Amsterdam with a group, rule books on e-reader and a comfy coffee shop: then you've got as much 'high' fantasy as you can tolerate, til you can't coherently roll the dice anymore) JiB - to answer, briefly, the how of your 'proper research' question : QUALITATIVE research. Specifically I'd suggest 'discourse analysis' to look at the issue of changes in RP when the mini's and mat hit the table. Aaron PS: fund me and I'll do it
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Post by stork on Oct 6, 2013 8:16:56 GMT -8
Here is a link to Beacon the AD&D clone And here is a link to THE MOOK for all your GURPS rpg needs
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
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Post by D.T. Pints on Oct 6, 2013 9:10:00 GMT -8
Here is a link to Beacon the AD&D clone And here is a link to THE MOOK for all your GURPS rpg needs Hey Stork! I don't know if there's any interest on either side but it might be really interesting to get the MOOK on the show for an interview. Then Stu can break out that QnA app again. I really enjoy his discussions on how he creates con games, anyway I was just curious if you crazy bastards would have him on the show or if that crazy bastard would want to be on ?
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Post by malifer on Oct 6, 2013 16:40:48 GMT -8
In response to stork's question to jazzisblues on "What's the point of Entry to Dungeon World?" and paraphrasing "Is there a lot of fluff in the book?" Ever since I played with HyveMynd I have made it fairly well known I am a big fan of the game. It's simple and a lot of fun. As far as the learning curve it is very low and honestly free. I will explain. I purchased the DW book because I like physical books and don't really like e-books or pdfs. Dungeon World is the first Rpg where I would say buy the PDF. And buy it just because you like the game and you want to say thank you to Adam and Sage for making it, now throw it away. I mean I guess you can read it before you throw it away, but once you have read it throw it away. It's not that the book is poorly written, but that it is 406 pages of describing the rules light mechanics to the Nth degree. All you need to read is in the Character Sheet Packet which is free from the DW website. Now it's 28 pages but don't read all of that. If you're playing read the Basic & Special Moves pages (total 2 pages) and pick a character class don't bother trying to compare and contrast the first time out just pick one read the first page of the character sheet and then just barely the first part of the second page. There you're done. That's all, 4 pages of words with a lot of spacing and font use... ...oh you picked a magic user...*grumble grumble*...fine read some of the third page to pick your spells...5 pages. Are you planning to GM Dungeon World? Read the Players Basic and Special Moves pages, don't bother reading all the classes just the ones your players picked and read the 1 page of GM Moves. 4 players = less than 11 pages. "But wait?! I have questions?!" you say. Here is a free fan made guide to Dungeon World so well regarded if you asked a question on the DW forums most people point you towards this pdf. Now that guide is 60 pages. However it is 60 informative pages and actually explains things much better than the actual DW book. The DW book is filled with unnecessary pages. For instance the character classes are all extrapolated from the simple character sheet, nothing is explained simple reprinted and not like in the character sheet packet. In the Packet the Fighter(the simplest as usual)Character Sheet is 2 pages long in the book it's 7 pages. It's not described it's just each section on the character sheet is reprinted to a page in the book. This is 75 pages of the book. 85 pages of the book is Monster Stats. Fan made Monsters can be found for free at the Official Online Monster Codex. Then scattered around in the book there is a lot of Defining what the "tags" mean such as a "Precise" Weapon or a "Hoarder" monster. Here is a GM Reference sheet so you don't have to keep flipping back and forth through the book you should have thrown away. It's not that anything in the book is bad, but that the book could have 200 pages and it would have still been too long. And things you will need to reference are scattered all around, thank god the book has an index. For instance from the index you can see Tags are dependent on which category you want. Tags armor 327 general equipment 324 monster 224 range 326 weapon 325 But the fan made GM screen from above was able to put all of these on 1 page. I really, really like this game, but I do not rate the book half as high as I rate the game. Damn I just reviewed the book for being too long in a blog post where all I was trying to say is "No Dungeon World is not hard to learn and no you don't have to read the whole book."
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maxinstuff
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HJRP1017
Oct 6, 2013 17:52:30 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by maxinstuff on Oct 6, 2013 17:52:30 GMT -8
In response to stork's question to jazzisblues on "What's the point of Entry to Dungeon World?" and paraphrasing "Is there a lot of fluff in the book?" Ever since I played with HyveMynd I have made it fairly well known I am a big fan of the game. It's simple and a lot of fun. As far as the learning curve it is very low and honestly free. I will explain. I purchased the DW book because I like physical books and don't really like e-books or pdfs. Dungeon World is the first Rpg where I would say buy the PDF. And buy it just because you like the game and you want to say thank you to Adam and Sage for making it, now throw it away. I mean I guess you can read it before you throw it away, but once you have read it throw it away. It's not that the book is poorly written, but that it is 406 pages of describing the rules light mechanics to the Nth degree. All you need to read is in the Character Sheet Packet which is free from the DW website. Now it's 28 pages but don't read all of that. If you're playing read the Basic & Special Moves pages (total 2 pages) and pick a character class don't bother trying to compare and contrast the first time out just pick one read the first page of the character sheet and then just barely the first part of the second page. There you're done. That's all, 4 pages of words with a lot of spacing and font use... ...oh you picked a magic user...*grumble grumble*...fine read some of the third page to pick your spells...5 pages. Are you planning to GM Dungeon World? Read the Players Basic and Special Moves pages, don't bother reading all the classes just the ones your players picked and read the 1 page of GM Moves. 4 players = less than 11 pages. "But wait?! I have questions?!" you say. Here is a free fan made guide to Dungeon World so well regarded if you asked a question on the DW forums most people point you towards this pdf. Now that guide is 60 pages. However it is 60 informative pages and actually explains things much better than the actual DW book. The DW book is filled with unnecessary pages. For instance the character classes are all extrapolated from the simple character sheet, nothing is explained simple reprinted and not like in the character sheet packet. In the Packet the Fighter(the simplest as usual)Character Sheet is 2 pages long in the book it's 7 pages. It's not described it's just each section on the character sheet is reprinted to a page in the book. This is 75 pages of the book. 85 pages of the book is Monster Stats. Fan made Monsters can be found for free at the Official Online Monster Codex. Then scattered around in the book there is a lot of Defining what the "tags" mean such as a "Precise" Weapon or a "Hoarder" monster. Here is a GM Reference sheet so you don't have to keep flipping back and forth through the book you should have thrown away. It's not that anything in the book is bad, but that the book could have 200 pages and it would have still been too long. And things you will need to reference are scattered all around, thank god the book has an index. For instance from the index you can see Tags are dependent on which category you want. Tags armor 327 general equipment 324 monster 224 range 326 weapon 325 But the fan made GM screen from above was able to put all of these on 1 page. I really, really like this game, but I do not rate the book half as high as I rate the game. Damn I just reviewed the book for being too long in a blog post where all I was trying to say is "No Dungeon World is not hard to learn and no you don't have to read the whole book." How the fuck do you stretch that shit out to 400+ pages?? Everything I have heard about DW made me think it must be similar in heft to a SW Explorer Edition.....
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Post by malifer on Oct 6, 2013 18:23:09 GMT -8
How the fuck do you stretch that shit out to 400+ pages?? Everything I have heard about DW made me think it must be similar in heft to a SW Explorer Edition..... It should have been Explorer Edition size. It's a combination redundancy (although not a lot) and bad layout. The layout of the book is pleasing to look at and the book is Digest Size like 6x9, but the interior text has one inch margins on all sides. Occasionally these margins have a little "helpful" side note or hint in them, but honestly not enough of them to justify all the white space. So the "meat" of the book is 400 pages at 4x7. No chapters bleed into one another so sometimes a chapter ends with 3/4 of the page unused. Also from my recollection every piece of art in the book is on a page by itself. So there isn't any art on a page with text. And that is approximately 40 pages. One for each chapter heading and a few extra in the monster section.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on Oct 7, 2013 4:12:51 GMT -8
... And buy it just because you like the game and you want to say thank you to Adam and Sage for making it, now throw it away. ... If there was every a question that DungeonWorld was a hippie game, well there's your concrete proof. It was designed by someone named "Sage" for cryin out loud. Did "Moonbeam" do the art? For cripes sake...
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Post by malifer on Oct 7, 2013 5:24:28 GMT -8
... And buy it just because you like the game and you want to say thank you to Adam and Sage for making it, now throw it away. ... If there was every a question that DungeonWorld was a hippie game, well there's your concrete proof. It was designed by someone named "Sage" for cryin out loud. Did "Moonbeam" do the art? For cripes sake... Who said Dungeon World wasn't a hippie game? D&D use to be cool and laid back, you could do whatever you want, man. Then D&D started growing up it had a job working for "the man". D&D started to play by the rules and he got addicted to them. By the end of the 90s there so many rules D&D didn't make sense anymore he just stumbled around breaking his older rules. In the end D&D lost his job, but some Wizards said they could help. Then D&D cleaned up put on a suit and tie started letting everyone look at his new even more strict rules. D&D started a family of d20 games, all with that D&D twinkle in their eye. And the rules started coming in more than ever before. After a while though the Wizards decided D&D was getting a little too stuffy and old, the new kids wanted a game that made them say WoW. So the Wizards found some New Fresh Face Starlet and put her in front of the bright lights told everyone look at the size of her Encounter Maps and to check out those Minis. D&D was homeless living on the streets and giving Fatbeards One-shots for attention. And the welfare checks wasn't enough to feed all his bastard children so they started to drop like a flies. D&D was doubting all the strict adherence to the rules, AC was dumb and Grapple rules no one could understand. But then someone he had worked with a little bit, found him and got him off the street told D&D he was better than this just let me slip some of this nice artwork on you and you'll feel better. D&D got cleaned up again and promising himself never to fall down the path of addiction again. By this time most people had seen through the facade of 4e and seen her as the dumb attention grabbing whore that she was. 4e looked pretty but she wasn't exciting she just laid there waiting for combat to be over. D&D was back on top, he had a new name, but everyone knew he was still D&D. D&D had gone from working for "the man" to becoming "the man". And it will be okay if we have a small OGL license on the side. D&D can handled it this time, D&D knows his limits. D&D is fine. Just a taste. Then there was Dungeon World a scrappy young kid with big dreams. DW was rules lite, narrative based, and armor soaks. In DW you could do anything. It was not for those button down types that need "the man" to tell them what to do if it's raining or if they're prone. DW might not shower everyday, but that's what patchouli is for man. DW is cool daddy-o.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Oct 7, 2013 6:02:43 GMT -8
Yeah. malifer pretty much nailed it. I'd been using the Dungeon World PDF until cadave and hoseirrob grabbed me a hardcopy at Gateway 2013. It is a 400 page book. Which is kind of intimidating, even if it is digest-sized. But the book has everything in it. Everything. It's the Player's Handbook, the DM's Guide, the Monster Manual. It tells you how to make steadings, how to make your own monsters, how to make your own magic items, and how to make your own Compendium Classes. It breaks down the game mechanics and explains how to design your own custom moves. Plus a whole lot of other stuff, including the obligatory "What is a role playing game" and "Example of play" chapters. There will never be a need for an expansion book, because there's nothing else to add. It. Is. Everything. To the point of over explaining a bit, as malifer said. I kind of wish the book were only half the size. People would be less inclined to say "Fuck me. A 400 page RULES LIGHT game? WTF?" If you are a player in Dungeon World, all you need to read is the two page Basic/Advanced Moves sheet and your two page Class (character) Sheet (four pages if you're a spell caster) as malifer said. If you're the GM, all you need to read is Chapters 2, 3, 4, 13, and 14. Those short chapters tell you how the game is run, how characters are made, what the Basic/Advanced Moves do, how to be a GM, and how to start your first adventure. If, like me, you've already GMed an Apocalypse World-based game, you don't even need to read that. To answer stork's question, there is no world, setting, or "fluff" in the book. It's a hippie game, where the setting is made at the table via player collaboration and feedback.
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Post by Kainguru on Oct 7, 2013 10:10:35 GMT -8
If there was every a question that DungeonWorld was a hippie game, well there's your concrete proof. It was designed by someone named "Sage" for cryin out loud. Did "Moonbeam" do the art? For cripes sake... Who said Dungeon World wasn't a hippie game? D&D use to be cool and laid back, you could do whatever you want, man. Then D&D started growing up it had a job working for "the man". D&D started to play by the rules and he got addicted to them. By the end of the 90s there so many rules D&D didn't make sense anymore he just stumbled around breaking his older rules. In the end D&D lost his job, but some Wizards said they could help. Then D&D cleaned up put on a suit and tie started letting everyone look at his new even more strict rules. D&D started a family of d20 games, all with that D&D twinkle in their eye. And the rules started coming in more than ever before. After a while though the Wizards decided D&D was getting a little too stuffy and old, the new kids wanted a game that made them say WoW. So the Wizards found some New Fresh Face Starlet and put her in front of the bright lights told everyone look at the size of her Encounter Maps and to check out those Minis. D&D was homeless living on the streets and giving Fatbeards One-shots for attention. And the welfare checks wasn't enough to feed all his bastard children so they started to drop like a flies. D&D was doubting all the strict adherence to the rules, AC was dumb and Grapple rules no one could understand. But then someone he had worked with a little bit, found him and got him off the street told D&D he was better than this just let me slip some of this nice artwork on you and you'll feel better. D&D got cleaned up again and promising himself never to fall down the path of addiction again. By this time most people had seen through the facade of 4e and seen her as the dumb attention grabbing whore that she was. 4e looked pretty but she wasn't exciting she just laid there waiting for combat to be over. D&D was back on top, he had a new name, but everyone knew he was still D&D. D&D had gone from working for "the man" to becoming "the man". And it will be okay if we have a small OGL license on the side. D&D can handled it this time, D&D knows his limits. D&D is fine. Just a taste. Then there was Dungeon World a scrappy young kid with big dreams. DW was rules lite, narrative based, and armor soaks. In DW you could do anything. It was not for those button down types that need "the man" to tell them what to do if it's raining or if they're prone. DW might not shower everyday, but that's what patchouli is for man. DW is cool daddy-o. And then there were D&D's bastard children from being a swinger in the noughties. Some of them look like their dad when he was young and had attitude, some take more after their mums - feisty and independent but still with their dads hair or eyes. They're the ones that sit at the back of class because they're clever and bored by the pretentious followers of fashion. They smoke cigarettes and don't care that they're bad for you, they play beat up old guitars loudly in the garage and couldn't give a fuck about granola or dolphins or crystals - fuck the only crystals these kids know is crystal meth and "only the wankers on the side walk take that". They know all the words to Casablanca and only watch it in black and white. The know what the Cannes film festival is but they fucking hate hipsters - 'because they're just as fake as those new age air heads'. They're the kids that know the difference between being seen to protest and doing something about it. They belong to anonymous - because they always did, before it was cool. They can quote Sarte and Heidigger and they actually understand irony. They might wash and when they do they use soap and underarm. They eat meat while looking straight in the eye of their next meal. Those kids are proper cool - like James Dean or Jimi Hendrix. They'll listen to the Carpenters "but you know, it's just so . . . would we care if she hadn't died so pointlessly" Aaron
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Post by henryhankovitch on Oct 7, 2013 20:16:42 GMT -8
Regarding Call of Cthulhu, and other games in general, I've always held the philosophy of "if you want your game to take place on a boat, start the game on the boat." This has more to do with one-shots or short adventures than campaigns. If Alien was an RPG adventure, you start the adventure with the crew aboard the Nostromo. You don't start it with them meeting in a bar before they ship out, or with them as unemployed space-crew seeing a Weyland-Yutani recruiting ad. All that does is give them a chance to fuck up the adventure, either by wasting time or by actively walking away from it. If you want them to have time to interact before the shit hits the fan, they can have time aboard ship to do that.
This is even more important with horror games, because confining the players with the horror helps build tension. Being stuck in the same city as some terrorists is kind of worrisome. Being stuck in the same high-rise tower as a bunch of terrorists is a good goddamned movie. You're not preventing them from taking a bus ticket out of the adventure because you're a railroading bastard; you're withholding their bus ticket because that amplifies the tension. If you present it as a natural part of the scenario from the beginning--you're on a spaceship in an unknown system, you're on a ship in the middle of the ocean, you're in a research station in the Antarctic--then the physical constraints shouldn't come across as arbitrary or petty.
And when the players DO have the chance to get away, that makes the option all the more dramatic. Get on the helicopter, or go back for the kid? Drive out of town, or hunt down the vampire lair? Shoot the lieutenant, or finish the mission?
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maxinstuff
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HJRP1017
Oct 8, 2013 1:18:41 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by maxinstuff on Oct 8, 2013 1:18:41 GMT -8
Your hosts: Stu, Stork, JiB If you’d like to contribute to team Grenable for the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation’s Los Angeles 2013 Walk for a Cure, you can do so here. Where??
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Post by malifer on Oct 8, 2013 4:11:56 GMT -8
Your hosts: Stu, Stork, JiB If you’d like to contribute to team Grenable for the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation’s Los Angeles 2013 Walk for a Cure, you can do so here. Where?? The hyperlink was on the Happy Jacks home page. Stu just copy and pasted the show notes from there and posted them on the forum. But I wont make you go all the way back there because your such a chap. www2.jdrf.org/site/TR?team_id=85797&fr_id=2454&pg=team
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Post by mook on Oct 8, 2013 14:32:25 GMT -8
Great episode, and even a bonus little jolt of GURPS (a/k/a, "GURPes"), always a pleasant surprise. Stu, I share your love of the Size/Speed/Range table, and in fact have it tattooed on my inner thigh. I'm jazzed right now about the super quick character creation JiB mentioned -- though I've since changed the title to "Ten Minute GURPS Characters" from "Five" to avoid gamer rage if it takes 6 or 7 minutes. If Pyramid doesn't want it, it'll be on my site soon. Broad strokes... "Write down your name, distribute these 6 points amongst your attributes, describe an advantage or two, maybe a diadvantage, describe four skills you're good at, let's figure out your Move, active defenses, DR, a weapon or two, some gear, boom, you're done, let's get to playing." Never at any point do Character Points come into play. Why? 'Cause for a one-shot character, who a shit giveth? JiB used it Saturday to create a juvenile delinquent for our Halloween game -- his Wildcard skill was "Street Rat," I believe, and as far as I could tell the character hummed along just as nicely as any of the five pre-gens I also made before the game. Stork, you hit it right on the money with my Fate-infatuation. Much of the philosophy really sings to me, but I'm a die-hard cruncher and I do loves me some GURPS. In an apoplexy of inspiration, I finally realized with everyone else that the line between a "GURPS Advantage" and a "Fate Aspect" is so fine as to be non-existent. I don't think, for one-shot games, most people care overly much about whether the characters around the table have different point totals, as long as everyone has roughly the same amount of "stuff" and, most importantly, everyone has equal chance at being in the spotlight and doing cool things. Me mum always said I had a great face for radio. Incoherence over, I now pass out. /Thud Zzzzzz
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