D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Nov 16, 2013 9:17:00 GMT -8
I didn't get to listen to the entire episode live as I often have Friday night Commissioner of Broomball responsibilities. But I have to say if you get the chance to listen with the chat room please do so! There are certain nights when sometimes it's just me and rickno7 and some crickets...but last night was a pretty incredible cacophony of fucking hilarious conversations and in this as in all things I blame fray. And I know that in the final throw of the dice JiB and I agree on this but in the minutiae I think as a dramatic tension device there can be sessions when the GM creates the impression that an NPC is more important/powerful.! And that's a good thing. Always surrounding the story with the sense that the PCs are the precious unicorns of the story can make it feel a bit skewed kin my opinion. There can be times when the hero baker struggles for survival while the local fop tap dances on their misery and the story almost feels like it's about the dandy noble...then a session later when that noble has to be rescued by (or murdered by-cooked in a pie by...) the hero baker it's all the more lovely. As in horror games the subtle losses of power(agency to all you fancy pants modern vernacular folks) are what really create the tension and make the game make everyone(including the GM) get sweaty. I'm sure I missed a bunch just had to give a shout out to the fucking crazy runaway freight train that was last nights chat room. Here's hoping for a repeat!
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daniel
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 217
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Post by daniel on Nov 16, 2013 16:25:38 GMT -8
Dos not seem to be up on the site yet
Also am i missing something or is happy jacks no longer appearing on "http://rpgpodcasts.com/" anymore?
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maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
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Post by maxinstuff on Nov 16, 2013 18:00:19 GMT -8
Dos not seem to be up on the site yet Also am i missing something or is happy jacks no longer appearing on "http://rpgpodcasts.com/" anymore? Happyjacks RPG Podcast became self aware on the evening of 15th November 2013.
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maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
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Post by maxinstuff on Nov 16, 2013 18:00:54 GMT -8
double post.
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Post by Luckstrider on Nov 16, 2013 18:21:37 GMT -8
Dos not seem to be up on the site yet Also am i missing something or is happy jacks no longer appearing on "http://rpgpodcasts.com/" anymore? Happyjacks RPG Podcast became self aware on the evening of 15th November 2013. lol
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maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
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Post by maxinstuff on Nov 16, 2013 19:13:02 GMT -8
I am fine with powerful/awesome NPC's in principle.
If the adventure cannot be 'won' without them doing the heavy lifting though.... then we have a problem.
They can be awesome narrative devices though. Having an 'awesome' NPC step up only to get their head chopped off is very powerful when done correctly.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Nov 16, 2013 21:08:58 GMT -8
I am fine with powerful/awesome NPC's in principle. If the adventure cannot be 'won' without them doing the heavy lifting though.... then we have a problem. They can be awesome narrative devices though. Having an 'awesome' NPC step up only to get their head chopped off is very powerful when done correctly. Oooh someone should write a book where that happens!
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maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
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Post by maxinstuff on Nov 16, 2013 22:50:31 GMT -8
I am fine with powerful/awesome NPC's in principle. If the adventure cannot be 'won' without them doing the heavy lifting though.... then we have a problem. They can be awesome narrative devices though. Having an 'awesome' NPC step up only to get their head chopped off is very powerful when done correctly. Oooh someone should write a book where that happens! Har de har har.
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Post by Kainguru on Nov 16, 2013 23:22:41 GMT -8
Oooh someone should write a book where that happens! Har de har har. And it should be fucking epic and involve nations and states and dragons and thrones Aaron
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Post by greatwyrm on Nov 17, 2013 7:31:17 GMT -8
And it should be fucking epic and involve nations and states and dragons and thrones Aaron Sounds a little dry. Maybe throw in something like a wedding to lighten the mood?
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Nov 17, 2013 9:22:17 GMT -8
And it should be fucking epic and involve nations and states and dragons and thrones Aaron Sounds a little dry. Maybe throw in something like a wedding to lighten the mood? *goes for greatest quote infinite regression ever* Oh you're good...
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maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
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Post by maxinstuff on Nov 17, 2013 12:14:09 GMT -8
It's been quite a while since I was last owned that hard boys.
Bravo.
I'm going to have to band-aid my taint now.
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HyveMynd
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Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
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Post by HyveMynd on Nov 17, 2013 18:33:44 GMT -8
I'm going to have to band-aid my taint now. Eew. I'm not going to be able to get rid of that image for a while. Thanks. I had to go back in my Twitter feed to find the discussion jimto and I were having about GM improvisation. It stemmed from the second ever Pathfinder session Lyal and I played in, which was over a month ago now. @chrisinkobe was (and still is) GMing, and asked us if we wanted to run an upcoming chase scene with the original, out of the core book Pathfinder chase rules (which he said were widely panned by the Pathfinder community), or if we wanted to use the supplemental chase rules (which are said to be an improvement). As we are trying to play Pathfinder as close to RAW as we can to give it a fair review, we chose to use the original chase rules. After the session, we all discussed what we thought of the chase rules. I was negative at first (surprise, surprise), but eventually decided that the chase rules, as written, are much better as a "behind the scenes" tool for the GM. The players, in my opinion, shouldn't see the guts of how the chase is run. It should all be kept behind the GM's screen (including difficulty numbers) and narrated by the GM so things feel cinematic for the players. @chrisinkobe's point was that the rules explicitly state that everything should be placed on the table in full view of the players. Like a mini-boardgame. I don't think we resolved the argument, but it got me thinking about a broader question. In boardgames, the rules are set in stone. Inflexible. "Improvising" in Monopoly is really just another word for cheating and gets you banned for life from ever being the banker again. But in RPGs, improvising is part of the game. Rule Zero. Some game books specifically call attention to this, while other's don't mention it at all. So the question is, in a game that specifically states participants are allowed to improvise, does doing so still mean you are playing RAW? Or does improvising take you away from RAW, despite one of the rules indicating that it is allowed for in the system?
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Post by Luckstrider on Nov 17, 2013 18:59:35 GMT -8
I'm going to have to band-aid my taint now. Eew. I'm not going to be able to get rid of that image for a while. Thanks. I had to go back in my Twitter feed to find the discussion jimto and I were having about GM improvisation. It stemmed from the second ever Pathfinder session Lyal and I played in, which was over a month ago now. @chrisinkobe was (and still is) GMing, and asked us if we wanted to run an upcoming chase scene with the original, out of the core book Pathfinder chase rules (which he said were widely panned by the Pathfinder community), or if we wanted to use the supplemental chase rules (which are said to be an improvement). As we are trying to play Pathfinder as close to RAW as we can to give it a fair review, we chose to use the original chase rules. After the session, we all discussed what we thought of the chase rules. I was negative at first (surprise, surprise), but eventually decided that the chase rules, as written, are much better as a "behind the scenes" tool for the GM. The players, in my opinion, shouldn't see the guts of how the chase is run. It should all be kept behind the GM's screen (including difficulty numbers) and narrated by the GM so things feel cinematic for the players. @chrisinkobe's point was that the rules explicitly state that everything should be placed on the table in full view of the players. Like a mini-boardgame. I don't think we resolved the argument, but it got me thinking about a broader question. In boardgames, the rules are set in stone. Inflexible. "Improvising" in Monopoly is really just another word for cheating and gets you banned for life from ever being the banker again. But in RPGs, improvising is part of the game. Rule Zero. Some game books specifically call attention to this, while other's don't mention it at all. So the question is, in a game that specifically states participants are allowed to improvise, does doing so still mean you are playing RAW? Or does improvising take you away from RAW, despite one of the rules indicating that it is allowed for in the system? I've run a couple of chasing with pathfinder but didn't have the chase cards (until recently) and I used note cards on the table to explain things BUT I love the idea of keeping them behind the screen and just narrating the situation to the players. I am going to try that when my next chase pops up. That just sounds awesome! Thanks for the fantastic idea. I am of the opinion that RAW were written with the idea of providing a base system to help understand the game and that the base system should be tweaked or improvised with as needed. I don't really think there is a reason to strictly adhere to the rules system other than game balance. (and I think game balance is a pretty weak reason...just talk with your players when something gets out of whack...) My nuggets
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
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Post by HyveMynd on Nov 17, 2013 19:53:26 GMT -8
I got to the part where the hosts read CreativeCowboy's email and wanted to comment. This is mostly for CreativeCowboy, but it does fall under the category of general advice as well. You and I are in similar situations, CC. We're both ex-pats living in foreign countries where language can be a severe barrier to daily life. You and I, more so than other people here in the HJ's community, have to take what we can get when it comes to role playing participants. I don't know what it's like in Poland, but here in Japan the English speaking community is fairly small. My Japanese is nowhere even close to being good enough to run games for, or to play in a game run by a non-English speaker. Role playing games are such a language dependant hobby that I'm not sure my Japanese will ever be good enough to run anything more than an incredibly simple game. To back up my point, when we first met our friend and gaming buddy Yujiro, his English was so perfect that Lyal and I assumed he had been raised in the States. Only after knowing him for a few months and directly asking him did we learn his English was just that good. No one, and I mean absolutely no one, would assume he was anything other than a native English speaker. My main point here is that you and I have a much smaller pool of players to choose from than people living in their home countries, CC. To that end, we need to be more flexible, and compromise more often than other players here on the HJ's boards. For us, booting a player or leaving a group very likely means not finding a replacement. I was lucky enough to find a handful of other English-speaking role players who live nearby. While we're not wildly incompatible, we all have different GMing and play styles. None of us are a perfect match. However all of us realize that it's pretty much us or nothing, and so we compromise. I've run games that @chrisinkobe and Lyal didn't enjoy all that much. Lyal hated my run of Apocalypse World so much that he now refuses to play any game that's AW-based. I'm fed up to the back teeth with tactical play, square-counting, and d20 systems after our run of D&D 4e a few years ago, but Chris and Lyal wanted to try Pathfinder, so my choice was either sit out for a few months and not play anything, or suck it up and try to have fun. I chose the latter. When you have a smaller pool to choose from, you have to make do with what you have more often. That being said, I'm not suggesting you keep players who are so completely at odds with your play style that they bring the game to a screeching halt. A lack of players is not an endorsement to keep blatantly toxic ones at your table. Problem players need to go. All I'm saying is, for people in our position, we have to ignore minor irritations or incompatibilities. Much like dating, searching for the "perfect gaming group" is most likely going to leave you with no one. Perfect doesn't exist. Make the best out of what you have available.
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