fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Dec 16, 2013 1:31:22 GMT -8
So, I'm listening to episode 7, and after two UK correspondents, the crew are discussing abandoned RPG franchises.
The biggest problem with abandoned franchises is when a new system is created for a brand, and if it dies "prematurely" the mistakes and mechanical imbalances inherent in any first edition never get addressed. The Serenity RPG suffered from this.
But only the other hand, the advantage of abandoned systems is that you don't have to buy dozens of supplements and fluff to "keep up to date". When a system dies, it's like you are given a licence to make its world your very own.
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kroh
Supporter
Posts: 132
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Post by kroh on Dec 16, 2013 2:32:33 GMT -8
I was one of the contributors to the ransom model (before Kickstarter) from Ronin Arts to relaunch the old Marvel FASERIP game so super hero grognards, who didn't want to get a PHD in game mechanics from that era, (2006 - right before the launch of 4th Ed) could start to publish new material for the game. Myself and others quickly moved to start producing periodicals and frequent releases in order to try and jump start things. Unfortunately, the version that was created didn't take the game far enough and it soon died a second death. While there is a virbant community still supporting this old game (including producing free professional quality suplements) the attempts to retro clone it never really went anywhere (yet).
The great thing about the rise of the retro clones (I am so going to build a new game with that as the title) is that many of these older games are getting a facelift and seeing a rejuvinated community. While Original DnD (Swords and Wizardry) and AD&D (OSRIC) spawned their own followings and prompted the creation of loads of new content, it spurred others to take other long abandoned games and bring them back with a whole new bang. Goblinoid games did their take on the white box while pushing Mutant Future (reminiscent of your favorite Apocolypse RPG) out just after. Chill the RPG has seen a new version rise from the ashes along with it's sister games from that company. The more people return to these old rule sets to game with, the more other publishers will seek out older games and try a yell clear before hitting it with the paddles.
These are just a few of the games that were not covered on the podcast. And these games have begun to spawn a whole new set of rules that grew out of the old. Some companies like Sine Nomine produced, Stars Without Number, based on AD&D (new classes, new parts of the system and a new direction by taking things into space). Some people out there are even going one step further. Heroes Against the Darkness came out with a book, free for everyone, with professional formatting, custom art, and updates the D&D of yesterday in new and interesting ways.
While there is a lot of new content out there for newer games, it shows that with Role Playing being the focus of any game, these rules still have enough power behind them to work for us for a long time to come. Proof of this came recently when Wizards of the Coast re-released previous editions of the game and relaunched their web store through Drivethru RPG.
Folks that are into Old School Gaming will find that right now is a good time for it.
As far as the listener who wanted to bring up armor class goes... Modern Body Armor acts more like Damage Reduction than it does anything else. As a soldier that has worn many variations of modern body armor (damn I'm Old) I can say that the armor doesn't prevent one from being hit, but it does a good job of keeping the squishy bits on the inside where they belong. I think we all can see what the original designers were trying to do with the AC thing but I think that the fine folks on the Happy Jack's show have covered this ad nauseum (as the listeners won't let it die) The best advice, you as a show could continue to give, when this Hydra of a topic shows up again (SHIT! I cut off one AC discussion but two more grew up in its place!)is the same advice you give when speaking about different game systems. If you like Armor Class or it is a part of a game that you are playing, Enjoy it. If not, find a game that has a system in place that you will enjoy. Always refer back to Happy Jack's Rule #1: If you are having fun you are doing it right.
Rule # 2: Don't be that guy.
Great Episode. Keep up the great work. Walt
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Post by Kainguru on Dec 16, 2013 7:21:41 GMT -8
SteamPunk Dr Who. There is an obvious system - it's light with fluid mechanics than can easily embrace SteamPunk and/or magic - 'Dr Who: Adventures in Time and Space' by Cubicle 7 (it won an award) ;P Aaron
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Post by henryhankovitch on Dec 16, 2013 8:12:01 GMT -8
I just puked a little in my mouth.
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Post by Kainguru on Dec 16, 2013 9:31:14 GMT -8
I just puked a little in my mouth. Hey it wasn't my idea, blame the emailer. However I would point out that the Xmas episode 'The Next Doctor' was basically SteamPunk, as was the 'A Christmas Carol' (Matt Smith). Aaron
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maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
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Post by maxinstuff on Dec 16, 2013 11:51:35 GMT -8
Steampunk hate?
Or Dr Who hate?
I have never encountered either before :/
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Dec 16, 2013 11:57:06 GMT -8
Dr. Whovius Galifreyus and his amazing Traveling Brass Tardis (covered in Gears!).
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maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
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Post by maxinstuff on Dec 16, 2013 12:15:15 GMT -8
Dr. Whovius Galifreyus and his amazing Traveling Brass Tardis (covered in Gears!). I was thinking of a campaign kind of like that. Over in the GURPS sub-forum. Still not sure how it will work exactly. But cogs and steam and shit. And dimension hopping.
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kroh
Supporter
Posts: 132
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Post by kroh on Dec 16, 2013 12:20:13 GMT -8
Dr. Whovius Galifreyus and his amazing Traveling Brass Tardis (covered in Gears!). I was thinking of a campaign kind of like that. Over in the GURPS sub-forum. Still not sure how it will work exactly. But cogs and steam and shit. And dimension hopping. Dimensional hopping steam shit cogs... That sounds painful. Regards, Walt
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Post by rickno7 on Dec 16, 2013 20:13:15 GMT -8
There are unsupported games I don't mind playing. I feel like there's a ton of stuff for it and I wouldn't mind playing a campaign with it. Even if Pathfinder didn't exist, I'd be playing a version of D&D 3.0 for fantasy campaigns. Classic Traveller was always this area of gaming I wish I had gotten in to once I found my cousin's old book set when I was kid. Star Wars Saga edition, I'm there. Those old Star Trek games by LUG, I want to get some hardbacks of that just because I'm a Trek fan.
But for some reason, there's a certain publishing company that just never seems to keep a license very long, and so their back catalog is littered with unfinished product lines. I'm talking of Margaret Weis Productions. I don't know why they irk me so much, but the Marvel game they did and dropped out of nowhere was the final straw. They will not get my patronage even though I really really like Firefly and would love their books just for the fluff. Their Marvel game was dropped before it was out even a year.
I hear a lot of the same talk for the new Firefly game as I did the Marvel one. They talk about these years worth of books and support, and all these grand plans. When they cancelled the Marvel line, I felt like a fool. I felt like I had been tricked for my money. I know some of you on here have talked to the team and might even call them friends, but I'd still be pissed at a friend that talked about playing the shit out of a game system, got everyone to buy the books, and then called it an end after a few sessions.
Why should it bother me? I mean, the rules still exist. I could just make up the characters they did not stat out, or adapt my own stuff like I planned to originally. It shouldn't matter to me, but it does. Again, I like I said, I feel like I was fooled into investing myself into the game.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Dec 16, 2013 22:55:22 GMT -8
Not sure you can blame MWP for dropping Marvel. It seems they were as surprised as the rest of us when they announced it, and it looks (without any inside knowledge) that they had the licence pulled out from under them.
As for Serenity, they had a licence for a fixed number of products. And it wasn't renewed.
They publishing model now (scenarios that don't require a core book to play, core book to let you extend the game world) is an interesting one, and the Echoes of War line is so cheap on Drivethru, you should try one at least, you'll grok it from your MHR experience.
That said, if you get it from Drivethru back it up, don't expect it to last forever. If they loose the licence, you'll not be able to download another copy.
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Post by Kainguru on Dec 17, 2013 0:33:04 GMT -8
Unsupported games in limbo - it's just not that bad anymore since the internets. I've found if a system was good enough on its own merits the fan base will provide. Yes the quality can be variable and discretion is advised but that remains true of supported games with published supplements - hell I even remember the days of AD&D and Judge Guild products: treading with caution and being prepared to wade through 3 metres of shit to find a single nugget of gold. Aaron
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 2:46:54 GMT -8
While I won't deny that MWP have dropped a lot of lines I think a lot of that comes down to the fact they're licensing media products, as opposed to RPGs originally made by other companies, which means they're often subject to external expectations that don't sync well with the actual size / demands of the hobby. To top it out though they've had a regular habit of missing both writing and printing deadlines, which is squarely on them.
From what I know most of the lines have released the books they were licensed to do so, its just in most cases that's 3 core products, the exceptions (that I'm aware of) being: Battlestar Galactia - Only the quickstart and main rulebook, supposedly due to bad sales (which I'm not surprised at given the system hadn't been changed much to fit the genre) Supernatural - I believe (but am not 100%) that only 2 of the 3 planned books were released. Marvel - Many products announced and the license was pulled supposedly because while the sales were good from an RPG publisher point of view they weren't good enough for Marvel. Major printing delays didn't help the line.
As for the original Serenity license that was actually quite successful and was extended from 3 to 6 products, all of which were released and with the Big Damn Heroes handbook serving as both a supplement and rules update for the line.
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Post by malifer on Dec 17, 2013 5:56:30 GMT -8
I just puked a little in my mouth. Hey it wasn't my idea, blame the emailer. However I would point out that the Xmas episode 'The Next Doctor' was basically SteamPunk, as was the 'A Christmas Carol' (Matt Smith). Aaron I really dug that episode. I would probably watch a show based on that character.
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Post by marsuniversity on Dec 17, 2013 6:11:36 GMT -8
It seems like what you see with MWP's licensed product lines (the LUG Trek line being an earlier example) is what most licensed games will look like for the foreseeable future, since most license holders are not likely to be familiar with the tabletop RPG business model (or just not impressed in the profit generated there). I think Serenity/Firefly would be a great fit for something along the lines of what West End Games did with Star Wars, adding and expanding on (initially limited) source material. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll see any publisher running with a property again like this any time soon.
Regarding "dead lines" in general, I think there are worse things than a game having a solid run and then dying out. It does make it hard to get core books for new players (barring PDF releases), but one of my best campaigns used Fading Suns, and that didn't start until a few years after the original product line stopped being actively produced. Compare that to a product being picked up by someone who wants to update/expand the material (not naming names here), but fails to deliver at the output of the original company and doesn't keep any of the old material out there for new players to grab. I also have seen several creators of dead games on social media talking about future editions that are never seen (so far, any way), resulting in potential GMs waiting on the possible release instead of using what they already have for the campaign they planned.
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