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Post by ayslyn on Jan 22, 2014 9:21:55 GMT -8
The mechanic doesn't make Lawful Stupid anythings. No it causes. Very cute... You're still wrong. It doesn't cause jack.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Jan 22, 2014 11:39:11 GMT -8
CC, you contrast immersion and engrossment. I'm curious as to whether you would elaborate on that.
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Post by Arcona on Jan 23, 2014 1:03:34 GMT -8
CC, you contrast immersion and engrossment. I'm curious as to whether you would elaborate on that. The Sbloyd delved too greedily and too deep. You know what he awoke in the darkness of Khazad-dum... shadow and flame.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Jan 23, 2014 5:17:57 GMT -8
Hey, I get bored at work waiting for glue to dry.
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andreasdavour
Patron (Supporter)
Posts: 257
Preferred Game Systems: M0, Savage Worlds, Over the Edge, Warhammer FRP 1st ed.
Currently Playing: None
Currently Running: Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Llama
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Post by andreasdavour on Jan 27, 2014 13:29:22 GMT -8
Very cute... You're still wrong. It doesn't cause jack. No, I was being silly. But, I mean that since ideas that Paladins must be lawful good exists, ideas like "lawful stupid" appears. That idea would not be there, if the idea of alignment as some kind of metaphysical moral compass did not exist. Anyway. Just the fact that this conversation is going on proves my point. By the way. I don't think anybody ever has convinced anyone of anything when it comes to alignment in these kind of conversations. It's a toxic meme, and one reason I hate it so.
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Post by SavageCheerleader on Jan 27, 2014 15:47:29 GMT -8
CC, you contrast immersion and engrossment. I'm curious as to whether you would elaborate on that. The Sbloyd delved too greedily and too deep. You know what he awoke in the darkness of Khazad-dum... shadow and flame. That shit is pretty fucking funny. I spit water everywhere, goddamn it.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Jan 29, 2014 2:21:02 GMT -8
CC, you contrast immersion and engrossment. I'm curious as to whether you would elaborate on that. Well I would. I am actually seeking out the guy who made me clear on it - a novelist at GDW. He was very succinct and elloquent. I will be succinct due to time not predisposition, and not so elloquent. Immersive = rules. immerse verb (immersed, immersing) (especially immerse something or someone in something) 1 to dip it or them into or under the surface of a liquid completely. 2 to baptize them by submerging their whole body in water. be immersed in something to be occupied or involved deeply in it; to be absorbed • soon became immersed in the book. immersible adj. ETYMOLOGY: 17c: from Latin immergere to dip. www.chambers.co.uk/search.php?query=immerse&title=21stEngrossment = hooking the players at the table to forget they are playing a game. ( jazzisblues talks about this often but never mentions the word engrossment) engross verb (engrosses, engrossed, engrossing) to take up someone's attention and interest completely. engrossed adj. engrossing adj engaging one's full attention; highly interesting. ETYMOLOGY: 17c: from French engrosser, from en gros completely. www.chambers.co.uk/search.php?query=Engross&title=21stIn the 1979 sociological study of RPGs, Shared Fantasy by Alan Fine, there is a preponderance with player engrossment and very little concern with immersiveness - and where it is mentioned, it is connected to game design and not to play. The engrossment of munchkin-style players is their immersion in the system. But immersion is not first required to be engrossed. Immersion can come from engrossment. I hope that answers. Thanks for the question.
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Post by SavageCheerleader on Jan 29, 2014 2:50:04 GMT -8
CC, you contrast immersion and engrossment. I'm curious as to whether you would elaborate on that. Well I would. I am actually seeking out the guy who made me clear on it - a novelist at GDW. He was very succinct and elloquent. I will be succinct due to time not predisposition, and not so elloquent. Immersive = rules. immerse verb (immersed, immersing) (especially immerse something or someone in something) 1 to dip it or them into or under the surface of a liquid completely. 2 to baptize them by submerging their whole body in water. be immersed in something to be occupied or involved deeply in it; to be absorbed • soon became immersed in the book. immersible adj. ETYMOLOGY: 17c: from Latin immergere to dip. www.chambers.co.uk/search.php?query=immerse&title=21stEngrossment = hooking the players at the table to forget they are playing a game. ( jazzisblues talks about this often but never mentions the word engrossment) engross verb (engrosses, engrossed, engrossing) to take up someone's attention and interest completely. engrossed adj. engrossing adj engaging one's full attention; highly interesting. ETYMOLOGY: 17c: from French engrosser, from en gros completely. www.chambers.co.uk/search.php?query=Engross&title=21stIn the 1979 sociological study of RPGs, Shared Fantasy by Alan Fine, there is a preponderance with player engrossment and very little concern with immersiveness - and where it is mentioned, it is connected to game design and not to play. The engrossment of munchkin-style players is their immersion in the system. But immersion is not first required to be engrossed. Immersion can come from engrossment. I hope that answers. Thanks for the question. Ah, this gets to the crux of some discussions here and elsewhere, with the point getting lost rapidly; are you trying to tell me that in the early days, under the original rules in those little brown books (LBB), the roleplaying was taking a backseat to the actual rules (which actually state you could play space marines or dragons with them)? Nay, surely that is impossible, as we have many, many anecdotal tales of woe and how this is just not true! For only the saving grace of more rules to cover every known situation (and to say 'no, but' to those not covered) can make roleplaying possible. I am not really sure why people want to shield munchkins; there is in fact a bad, wrong, fun to rpgs and that is it. At the end of the day and at all times through all endeavors, the munchkin seeks to win D&D in the sense you beat the players around you at the table akin to monopoly or sorry. And that is stupid. Stupid, bad, wrong, and most certainly not fun. Sadly, certain systems damn near require you to be the olympic ideal of a character (4e and d20 in general) due to the wide distribution of bonuses and DCs. And this breaks the engrossment in the tales. And I know, there are so many anecdotal tales of how munchkins are like real gamers, enjoying story over combat, but we all know that cannot be true; you can't spend hours on a character's numbers and then just sit and talk. Oh, and we have actual plays now on youtube and podcast channels. The Modern D&D/PF adventuring party: Astronaut x1 Navy SEAL x1 Pope x1 Noble Prize winning Physicist x1 Danny Ocean x1 The Original D&D Party: The former Army dude down the street x1 The bookworm from school x1 Your semi-religious neighbor x1 That little shit who you know will end up in prison x1 For you Gestalt munchkins: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shepherd (and yes, at one time, he was Commander Shepherd) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Cassidy yep, your wet dream come to life.
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