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Post by goodmush on Apr 22, 2014 18:10:08 GMT -8
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Post by Kainguru on Apr 23, 2014 4:29:40 GMT -8
Let me get this right - a 20th level atheist Blackguard half-giant vampire? How did this 'thing' come into existence? I assume it's Blackguard (anti-paladin [spits]) powers are divine channelling of some nature, yet it denies the existence of any sort of divine entities vis-à-vis atheist. Half-giant I can get, maybe even a vampiric half-giant but this is insane . . . unless it was a quasi-deity of some sort on its way to infernal apotheosis . . . then being an atheist would be a bit hard given it's half way to being a God itself. Aaron Sent from my Surface 2 using Tapatalk
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Post by lowkeyoh on Apr 24, 2014 0:03:12 GMT -8
I don't see anything wrong with this.
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Post by Arcona on Apr 24, 2014 1:01:17 GMT -8
The atheist doesnt trouble me... I mean you have Ur-Priests in DnD that are basically dudes who hate the Gods and steal their divine abilities for themselves!
What I dont understand is why the Half-Giant and the Vampire dont take up any levels/CR additions... Vampire alone is +2 to CR. Also not sure if Giant should further add to it.
Regardless... I really dont see what is so difficult about this guy? You just stay indoors and make fun of him and he cant really do anything to you... cause he is a vampire and you didnt invite him in. You can also throw some garlic bombs at him until he rolls a 1 on his will save and flees so you can make even more fun of him!
Lastly... heh... he cant even fly... or rather he can turn into a bat but then he loses all abilities from magical items, SU and EX from its original form and pretty much everything else... so yea... he cant fly unless he is a moron and tries to.
So, if you want a serious answer and assuming that we are facing something like this on equal footing I guess it just takes 1 wizard to take him out.
cause you know...
Wizard casts Timestop and then uses Gate to summon Solars. This thing is super evil, atheist AND an antipaladin so the Solars spend a few minutes of their time putting it out of its misery.
Or you know, if you want to be funny you just cast sunburst a few times until it misses a save (it has high enough but as a 20th level wizard you also have a high DC) and regardless of damage it goes puff... you then cast Gust of Wind and play with its gaseous form struggling to do anything.
If bored you can also use Polymorph any Object to turn him into a bug and squish him underfoot...
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Post by Kainguru on Apr 24, 2014 1:17:12 GMT -8
Yeah, except an atheist doesn't believe in any divine entities - NOT the same thing as an Ur-Priest. Nor is it the same as being agnostic - which is having no opinion in the matter due to a lack of interest or nontheist: who is basically an agnostic who is interested but maintains a position of being unable to know the unknowable and accepts this condition as part of their rational consideration of such matters. There are as many flavours of non belief as there are belief, atheist is the extreme end of one spectrum and could argue that atheism differs because it is a very active and deliberate choice to have no belief in any sort of divine. An Ur-Priest wants to steal the power of the Gods, this is intrinsically antithetical to being an atheist. Note: the use of the root thesis in many words used in most philosophical/religious discussions (just an interesting observation and nothing to do with the actual topic) Aaron
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Post by Arcona on Apr 24, 2014 1:35:03 GMT -8
Ok yes, you do have a point... Thing is, I believe the use of Atheist on this sheet to mean that the character doesnt worship any Gods. You cant really be an Atheist in DnD... because... the Gods are ever present. Meaning Priests actually DO miracles... they actually use powers that are not parlor tricks (in most settings anyway) and are clearly different from Arcane Magic. You can of course deny the existence of Gods in DnD the same way someone today can deny the existence of Gravity or the Moon... its called being deranged or an idiot... So yea, in principle you are absolutely right. I interpret the 'Atheist' here as non-believer or even 'against the gods'. And we all know where those people end up... As a Brick on Kelemvors wall...
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Post by Kainguru on Apr 24, 2014 2:51:50 GMT -8
I only mention it 'cause 'we' were basically harangued by our introductory philosophy lecturer over it . . . It sort of sticks in your mind when an over bearing professor 'corrects' the wide spread misuse in the latest assignments he's graded (don't get me wrong, he was a good lecturer and I enjoyed the course . . . to the point of signing up for existential philosophy the next semester) But, yeah, it's a bit hard to be a by the book atheist in the standard D&D setting. I'm currently playing in an Iron a Kingdoms game and made the GM turn pale when I declared 'I have no religious affiliations - we'd be better off without the Gods' . . . He went great pains to explain how 'no Gods = no reality', given our mercenary company are called 'The Nihilists' I said that suits me fine (though I suspect he's more annoyed that I've decided to play my Iosian war caster as faux French with a cultural superiority complex thus the nihilism) Aaron
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Post by jazzisblues on Apr 26, 2014 7:10:05 GMT -8
An atheist in Pathfinder wouldn't deny that the beings existed, he would deny that they were gods. He would assert that they are nothing more than very powerful mortals, that the true gods were actually above them. Or at least that's how I would probably deal with that in a PF game. Now that said, being an atheist would likely have detrimental effects in terms of divine healing or spells. They might very well not work on an atheist at all. One could take the position even that one could not receive blessings from an opposing faith. It could be one way to add a bit more grit and complexity to the game situation.
JiB
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Apr 26, 2014 7:25:13 GMT -8
Yeah IN A WORLD...where there are dragons, giants, and all other kinds of crazy monstrous beings I'd see an atheist as someone who denies any sort of cosmic superiority of the "gods". They just have a higher AC and more hit points. Actually that could be a pretty amazing campaign. A group of "paladins" that get their power from their "derision". And go about on a witch hunter like campaign burning and tearing the temples down so that mankind can be free. Ride forth Sir Richard "The Lionheart" Dawkins!
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Post by Kainguru on Apr 26, 2014 8:57:01 GMT -8
Well I've thought if something similar - but more like Stormbringer where Elric basically tells all the Gods to .'get fucked' and then toots that horn (spoilers, sorry). Classical Greek mythology actually has that as a theme running through it - mankind asserting it's independence from, in spite of and to spite the Gods. JiB has echoed another thought I had once, to make religion and Clerics more than just healbots. You want to be healed then you'll have to listen to your PC clerics eulogies and appear convincingly interested in conversion - ie: be nice to the guy with the shaved head in your party and say grace before every iron ration or you might find that healed stab wound suddenly reopening itself mid meal. Aaron
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