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Post by Kainguru on May 6, 2014 2:36:55 GMT -8
Here's the situation, we gave an inexperienced GM who is an experienced Player - he's having trouble making the transition because, by his own admission, he's "not good at/is uncomfortable with improvising/winging it/going off the reservation. Now it's easy for us to sit there and say "just make it up", when he obviously needs more concrete advice and a 'how to' manual. I think most of us learnt by being baptised in fire, so to speak - circumstances conspired and we had to adapt and eventually we got 'it'. Not all people learn this way - rather it just remains frightening and their response is to avoid it at all costs. What advice can we, the general GMing community, give to help over come this obstacle? More beer has already been mooted but is not an option? Aaron
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on May 6, 2014 7:50:24 GMT -8
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Post by Houndin on May 6, 2014 9:02:41 GMT -8
Assuming it's Fantasy, Send him over to Save vs. Dragon and check out his d30 tables. Great for guys who can't think of a tavern name or how those lizardmen are going to react to a group of murder-hobos showing up in their swamp.
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Post by guitarspider on May 6, 2014 9:38:04 GMT -8
I'm assuming he's in trouble with his story when you do something unexpected?
If that's the case:
1) Nobody pulls stuff out of thin air, every improvising GM has a base he works from. If he's familiar with the tropes of the genre he's running, he can probably think of several ways books or movies have continued in a similar situation or can tell what kind of continuation would be appropriate. Pick one, go, it's not magic!
1a) If you can't think of a concrete continuation, think theme and mood. Then do what you need to do to get there.
2) Don't worry about stuff not being cool enough. If you've done something genre-appropriate, you're going to be fine.
3) Don't worry about being super-consistent with the details. Keep the story going and the details won't matter that much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 11:49:01 GMT -8
Something for the players rather than the GM per se but when I first started GMing the thing I really hated was players going off tangent / ignoring the plot hooks I'd put directly in front of them. So in that regard I'd ask the players to try and not go too off piste, which reduces the amount of winging it the GM has to do. They'll still have to do some but if the players are self railroading then they'll have to do less which makes it more manageable and less stressful.
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Post by Kainguru on May 6, 2014 12:50:01 GMT -8
Alright here's an example - we're pretty battered and need to hole up for the night and recuperate. We need an inn, any inn that'll cater to a mercenary company of arseholes. GM freezes because he's not sure where such an inn is . : . starts flicking through the campaign/module source book and even checking online. We just say 'relax, its a big city, just make it up and we'll go with it' . : . but he admits he's 'no good at just 'making it up' and finds improve uncomfortable'. Unfortunately we're getting dangerously close to being railroaded now, but we're all creative RPer's - we don't mean to go off script it just happens because 'hell, we're mercenaries, right, when we fight we want all the odds in our favour . . . that's what recon is for and tactics and trying to find the best god damn way of winning a fight'. Iron Kingdoms combat can be pretty brutal, not lethal but it's easy to lose if you don't have your collective shit together. What we try not to do is just walk straight into a fight like a Roman phalanx and its little details that we ask for that 'might' tip things in our favour that flusters him - cause its the kind of stuff that isn't in most modules because a) you've got read all that stuff b) they have to write all that stuff and print it and keep it at a price point that'll you still buy it and c) common understanding is that the GM just makes that shit up to give his/her game his/her stamp/flavour. But some people find that difficult. My advice is drink beer, smoke pot, whatever gets you relaxed enough to 'let shit happen'* . : . but that's not an option. He knows he needs to learn to improvise, its teaching it that is causing the butt hurt. Aaron *First time I 'got it' - back in my youth - I'd prepped a bit, prepped more with my mate Jack D, players went totally off script so I decided to finish a bit more Jack D prepping at the table while I tried to figure out what the hell to do. Well uncle Jack came thru for me and in flurry of less than sober brilliance I came up with a basic premise for 'what happens next'. That premise expanded into a full blown campaign that didn't reach its conclusion for another 2 years (real time). Sent from my Surface 2 using Tapatalk
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Post by guitarspider on May 6, 2014 14:23:10 GMT -8
What might help is improvisation exercises? If loosening up through beer is not an option, that might do it. I think Stu mentioned one on a FtB crossover (you stand in a circle, say "bunny bunny bunny" and point to the next person who has to say it and so on). The way you describe it, it sounds like the problem's not that he can't do it so much as that he doesn't let himself feel comfortable with it.
It's tough though, one of my players is kind of similar (but not nearly as bad) and I found I couldn't really help him, he kind of needs to learn that for himself.
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Post by Malex on May 6, 2014 15:59:20 GMT -8
Improv is a skill that takes time to build, like any muscle. I found that after playing Fiasco a few times that my ability to come up with things on the fly had gotten better.
I have found that as a Player it is good to offer ideas to a newer GM who is not well versed in the Improv style of GMing. This fosters that group collaboration which is really the foundation of Improv next to the "Yes, and".
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Post by Kainguru on May 7, 2014 1:54:56 GMT -8
Improv is a skill that takes time to build, like any muscle. I found that after playing Fiasco a few times that my ability to come up with things on the fly had gotten better. I have found that as a Player it is good to offer ideas to a newer GM who is not well versed in the Improv style of GMing. This fosters that group collaboration which is really the foundation of Improv next to the "Yes, and". We actually tried that . . . as he was struggling to 'find an inn' we threw a bunch of ideas at him: Inn name, Innkeepers name, what it might look like etc etc. Even said, at one point, "we'll keep looking until we find and Inn that looks like 'this'". Time and practice is the only cure I suppose . . . going from player to GM is hard. I do believe that part of the problem is using a preprinted campaign/scenario incorrectly - modules etc are frameworks to build and expand on not a complete package (including the kitchen sink) that simply has to be referenced. That, I believe, indicates a lack of confidence in his own abilities and thus the lack of comfort in 'winging it' - the curse of 'boxed text'. Aaron
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Post by jazzisblues on May 11, 2014 6:37:22 GMT -8
The key to making it up is, oddly enough, practice. The thing that makes most of us good at winging it is having enough context to be able to spin things out of the ether.
One thing that can help for the gm. Immerse yourself in media relating to the genre of the game. I know I've said this a lot and it takes a bit of work to do it, but it really does make a difference. Read, watch, listen to everything you can get your hands on. When I'm working on a game I will have music from the genre playing in the background. I will watch movies and read books from the genre just to immerse my head in what I'm doing. All of that makes it easier to spin up things on the fly.
Cheers,
JiB
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on May 11, 2014 9:19:39 GMT -8
Maybe he needs to be exposed to some good ole Yes And. Why put all that pressure on yourself to make up the inn? Ask the players what kind of inn they're looking for, and Yes And the shit out of that motherfucker.
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on May 11, 2014 9:37:46 GMT -8
After a little more consideration and reflection, I also thought of this: when I used to DM -a lot- I improv'ed pretty much everything... but the way I did it was through preparation. Not preparation of anything in particular, but through being familiar with the setting and the various sources of the setting... kind of like how Stu likes to work from the bottom of a large pile of crunch, I like to work from the bottom of a large pile of prep.
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Post by Kainguru on May 11, 2014 9:38:35 GMT -8
Lol. We do offer - so it's 'yes and' by the players. He's just uncomfortable with improv and that's a huge stumbling block to overcome Aaron
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on May 11, 2014 9:39:33 GMT -8
Yeah, I got that. Has this fellow listened to Stu and folks expound on the virtues of Yes And?
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Post by Kainguru on May 11, 2014 10:10:51 GMT -8
Like many geeks he is actually rather podcast adverse - I think it has something to do with cutting into computer/console gaming time Aaron
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