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Post by savagedaddy on Aug 23, 2014 18:06:27 GMT -8
About 1 hour 50 minutes into the show Stu specifically asked if Savage Worlds could handle the classic Heist (ala Ocean's Eleven). I have created a fan supplement that specifically addresses Savage Worlds and Heists. I've written a free fan supplement (Savage Daddy's Heist Companion). Please excuse the typos as this is a rough draft... drive.google.com/file/d/0B_0e01Epc4FGdFk3NDRxTjNpTDQ/edit?usp=sharingKeep Rolling and Stay Savage Jerrod 'Savage Daddy' Gunning savagedaddy@gmail.com
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Post by jazzisblues on Aug 23, 2014 18:37:41 GMT -8
About 1 hour 50 minutes into the show Stu specifically asked if Savage Worlds could handle the classic Heist (ala Ocean's Eleven). I have created a fan supplement that specifically addresses Savage Worlds and Heists. I've written a free fan supplement (Savage Daddy's Heist Companion). Please excuse the typos as this is a rough draft... drive.google.com/file/d/0B_0e01Epc4FGdFk3NDRxTjNpTDQ/edit?usp=sharingKeep Rolling and Stay Savage Jerrod 'Savage Daddy' Gunning savagedaddy@gmail.com Teh Awesomeness!!!
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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hjrp12-15
Aug 24, 2014 0:47:10 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by fredrix on Aug 24, 2014 0:47:10 GMT -8
Yay! Shout out for R ! The statistical programming language!
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Aug 24, 2014 1:07:31 GMT -8
Yay! Shout out for R ! The statistical programming language! The chap who wanted pulpy, Oceans 11, Sci-fi should invest in two cheap PDFs: Echoes of War-Bucking the Tiger; and Serenity Crew Together these would make a taster of the Cortex Plus system, with an Oceans Eleven style scenario, in a Sci-Fi setting. It's Firefly, yes and they might not be wanting that long term. But it's a cheap way on tasting the system, with all the rules you need. I say this because Cortex Plus, like Fate, takes a very different approach from Pathfinder, and splashing out on core books might feel like a waste of money if your players don't get it. Whoops that was meant to be an edit, not a quote!
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Post by joecrak on Aug 25, 2014 5:20:22 GMT -8
Stu Venable I hope you record your L5R con game for the fans of the actual play. I know quite a few people that have recorded con games even when playing in a "fishbowl" room, but things usually turn out listenable.
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mrcj
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 173
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Post by mrcj on Aug 25, 2014 17:03:53 GMT -8
A note regarding the McGuffin. I think the extent you need to plan/go nuts regarding the loss of a McGuffin relates to the prominence of it to the your main plot. When Frodo threw the ring into the fire it started the denouement or Harry Potter destroyed all those horcruxes that was the whole point…the problem there is not destroying the McGuffin it is not destroying them.
What happens next, well when James Bond threw the McGuffin off the cliff (a very player move in my opinion) at the end of For Your Eyes Only, the Russian general shrugged, got back on the helicopter and left, queue end credits. If the McGuffin is important enough to kill the plot line then let it die. Don't drag the corpse along hoping for something else to pop up.
The ark example is interesting. If Indy blows up the ark, there is still plot left to sort out, as the nazis have the girl still and he is stuck on a remote island. Add to that the potential for a divine event of some kind…yeh I’d take a minute to sort that out then let it end naturally…
And- if the character does something that could kill him, then let him die. If the party decides they are going to kill Leeloo (the Fifth Element’s McGuffin) just have them tear up their character sheets after she eats their lunch. Or melt them when they decide to tangle with the Loc-Nar (Heavy Mental) or the nuclear device they decide to blow up standing next to it.
If the McGuffin is not the point, but a clue (The typewriter, the pen, the piece of clothing) there should be enough clues in your prep to have another way around it.
If the McGuffin is so essential that the entire quest falls apart if you don’t have it, good luck you really are screwed, like if the puppet breaks the crystal in “The Dark Crystal” the crystal that will bring order to the universe, and now it’s gone. Well there will be no order in the universe. This should be a teachable moment for GMs to not base entire campaigns around something that can be broken. Yep, you willneed to retool the whole thing, hopefully it happened early.
At the same time if the party is on the Quest for the Holy Grail and they run into the knights who say “Ni!” but instead of buying a shrubbery from Roger the Shrubber they kill him…well that’s not so hard.
So what you need to do if the McGuffin goes missing is rarely a game killer but if can be a fun complication. If Bogart burns the letters of transit and Ingrid Bergman has to find a different way out of Casablanca, then the game is really on.
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Post by stork on Aug 25, 2014 19:09:18 GMT -8
A note regarding the McGuffin. I think the extent you need to plan/go nuts regarding the loss of a McGuffin relates to the prominence of it to the your main plot. When Frodo threw the ring into the fire it started the denouement or Harry Potter destroyed all those horcruxes that was the whole point…the problem there is not destroying the McGuffin it is not destroying them. What happens next, well when James Bond threw the McGuffin off the cliff (a very player move in my opinion) at the end of For Your Eyes Only, the Russian general shrugged, got back on the helicopter and left, queue end credits. If the McGuffin is important enough to kill the plot line then let it die. Don't drag the corpse along hoping for something else to pop up. The ark example is interesting. If Indy blows up the ark, there is still plot left to sort out, as the nazis have the girl still and he is stuck on a remote island. Add to that the potential for a divine event of some kind…yeh I’d take a minute to sort that out then let it end naturally… And- if the character does something that could kill him, then let him die. If the party decides they are going to kill Leeloo (the Fifth Element’s McGuffin) just have them tear up their character sheets after she eats their lunch. Or melt them when they decide to tangle with the Loc-Nar (Heavy Mental) or the nuclear device they decide to blow up standing next to it. If the McGuffin is not the point, but a clue (The typewriter, the pen, the piece of clothing) there should be enough clues in your prep to have another way around it. If the McGuffin is so essential that the entire quest falls apart if you don’t have it, good luck you really are screwed, like if the puppet breaks the crystal in “The Dark Crystal” the crystal that will bring order to the universe, and now it’s gone. Well there will be no order in the universe. This should be a teachable moment for GMs to not base entire campaigns around something that can be broken. Yep, you willneed to retool the whole thing, hopefully it happened early. At the same time if the party is on the Quest for the Holy Grail and they run into the knights who say “Ni!” but instead of buying a shrubbery from Roger the Shrubber they kill him…well that’s not so hard. So what you need to do if the McGuffin goes missing is rarely a game killer but if can be a fun complication. If Bogart burns the letters of transit and Ingrid Bergman has to find a different way out of Casablanca, then the game is really on. Very salient points. I Admit, I got lost in my Indy/Ark analogy, as you point out. I'm glad you were able to pick up the pieces of our rambling and clarify some of the unsaid points. Thank you
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Post by SavageCheerleader on Aug 26, 2014 3:29:38 GMT -8
Why does the McGuffin need to be breakable? Sure, some will be breakable, but the Ark of the Covenant should not be destructible or at least not permanently. It could re-form elsewhere or simply be impervious to mortal hands.
Another question, if you have a McGuffin or plot point and the party misses it or goes in a direction other than the one(s) you figured, why is the point lost to you as a GM? Why not just re-adjust when/where/how the prepped item/plot occurs? Essentially, how does the show hosts and forum members deal with the possibility of a Quantum Ogre?
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Post by yeknom on Aug 26, 2014 7:27:03 GMT -8
Is anyone else cognizant about the misuse of the term "MacGuffin" lately?
One of the key aspects of a MacGuffin is that its particular aspects have very little to do with anything. Its only relevance is that it's very important to the story, and the reasons that it is important are never explained. The best example of this from recent memory that I like to cite is probably the briefcase in Pulp Fiction. It's a very crucial element for the story's plot, but we never really know what's inside it or why it's (presumably) valuable. It's only there as something to inject motivations into the plot, rather than directly affect the plot by itself.
To use the HJRP's example of The Ark of the Covenant from Raiders of the Lost Ark, its face-melting functionality actually plays a *major* role in the plot, as certain Nazis would attest if they were still able. You can't replace it with, say, a jade statue and have the story play out exactly the same, because the film explicitly establishes the importance and power of the artifact throughout the movie. Since it has such a direct impact on the plot, it should probably be called a "plot device," as are most of the things we're calling "MacGuffins."
As another example of a MacGuffin, we may be able to refer to Raiders of the Lost Ark again, but instead by recalling the very beginning of the movie, when Indy nabs the golden idol. We don't know anything about it or why it's so important (except that it's made of gold), but we know that it's important. It drives the plot simply by being an object of interest, independent of its identity.
Anyway, I didn't mean to come across as being overly butt-hurt over this, but I just thought the term could use some clarification since I have a number of friends who like to discuss filmmaking and screenwriting. I'll get off this tiny soapbox now.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Aug 26, 2014 8:11:50 GMT -8
You are right of course, but I think the discussion misused the word only in that they meant "the thing that everyone's after, be it something that will benefit the characters in the narrative, or a true Hitchcockian, useless MacGuffin"
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Aug 26, 2014 9:00:09 GMT -8
I just thought the term could use some clarification Careful about that here. A worthwhile conversation always begins with a clarification of terms, but it is not always welcome to explore terms or call for definitons here, IMHE. But I agree with you.
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Post by yeknom on Aug 26, 2014 9:45:02 GMT -8
A worthwhile conversation always begins with a clarification of terms, but it is not always welcome to explore terms or call for definitons here, IMHE. For what it's worth, I really enjoyed the discussion in this episode regarding the Exploding MacGuffin, even if the plot devices everyone was talking about weren't super-strict-by-the-book MacGuffins™. I just threw in my two cents because it's one of the few terms that I've actually got some background knowledge of, and I felt like sharing. Back on topic - I really like all the different strategies that were mentioned for dealing with the unexpected. It was especially nice that a lot of different tactics for dealing with the unexpected were thrown around. Because one thing I've learned is that a specific approach that works for one GM won't necessarily work for another GM.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Aug 26, 2014 10:51:52 GMT -8
I also believe words matter, and RPGs are a construct of words IMHO. Because one thing I've learned is that a specific approach that works for one GM won't necessarily work for another GM. We are very much in syncopation here too.
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Post by Kainguru on Aug 26, 2014 11:11:18 GMT -8
The two conversations - MacGuffins/The Unexpected and Wrench Throwing are closely related . . . with the same advice: The GM's story only lasts up to the point the Players enter Expect the Unexpected Be prepared, not over-prepared Be flexible and rewrite what you need to rewrite when you need to. If every RPG is a story akin to a novel then, like all well crafted novels, the final product may only but faintly reflect the original draft . . . Aaron
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Post by HourEleven on Aug 26, 2014 17:33:26 GMT -8
"Well, you can do everything in Gurps." -stu I'd wear a Tshirt with that on it.
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