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GMPC's
Feb 23, 2012 9:08:04 GMT -8
Post by ironnikki on Feb 23, 2012 9:08:04 GMT -8
When I was playing a long-running DnD 3.5 and a nWoD game while in college, our GM always had a persistent GMPC who was mostly just there to save our asses if and when we got into trouble. After a couple of encounters, though, these characters started fleshing out a bit, and developed relationships with the other PC's. We never really felt like they were detracting from our experience in game; on the contrary, they seemed to enrich our game.
At this point, it appears that in my group of friends, I'm the only competent GM. I'm not trying to be egotistical, but everyone else who has run a game does not take time to prepare before the game actually starts, holds grudges against players for both IG and OOG actions, can't or won't agree to a regular play schedule, or other issues that typically cause their games to dissolve in less than a month. I love GMing, but I'm starting to miss the persistent roleplaying that players get. As yet, I haven't used a GMPC because I don't want the players starting to think that I'm biasing the game by playing on both sides of the screen. In fact, it's very possible that I would end up doing that, albeit subconsciously.
What's everyone's take on a persistent GMPC joining the group? Would you rather have a GMPC who doesn't participate in combats or skill checks, but contributes to roleplay, or would it be better to specifically design a GMPC to fill a hole in the group? I haven't yet checked with my players, but I don't think that they wouldn't have a problem either way.
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GMPC's
Feb 23, 2012 10:29:54 GMT -8
Post by jazzisblues on Feb 23, 2012 10:29:54 GMT -8
I don't generally do GMPC(s) because to be candid I don't have the time or energy to devote to them when I'm gm'ing. Well that's one reason. I also have a fair degree of discomfort with doing this because it seems to me to be a conflict of interests with all manner of potential for disaster. I can certainly understand the urge to have someone on hand who can bail out the pc's if they get into trouble. On the other hand if they got themselves into it they brought it on themselves.
I try to take into account the potential weaknesses of the party when I'm crafting the adventure. If they don't have a healer that's a concern and one that they might want to think about.
I would probably resist the urge to play a gmpc because I don't want to detract from the pc's. Now that said, if I had a really small group (say 2 players) I might be inclined to be more flexible thought not necessarily by playing a gmpc to help them out with pure muscle from time to time. Hirelings are great for this sort of thing.
Just my 2 krupplenicks on the subject. Your mileage may of course vary.
JiB
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GMPC's
Feb 23, 2012 16:17:11 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2012 16:17:11 GMT -8
I have used persistent GMPCs, but only under two circumstances, generally:
1) Usually, I only do it when I have few players, and the group could use more party members.
2) I tend to make the GMPC no more powerful or knowledgeable than the PCs and, most importantly, I tend to make the GMPCs not very leader-like, and they tend to follow the direction of the PCs, let the PCs be in charge, etc.
Using this method, I've had some great NPCs that I could play persistently, and that the PCs developed seriously relationships with.
--Pukka Tukka
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GMPC's
Feb 23, 2012 21:19:54 GMT -8
Post by rickno7 on Feb 23, 2012 21:19:54 GMT -8
I generally use GMPC's only when I have a group that is almost all newbies to the game. All three times I've done this, I have done it in the same manner, and it always gets good reviews from the players.
Somehow I fit the players together in a sort of mercenary training camp or something similar depending on the setting. I play the old experienced war veteran that is assigned to train the newbies and oversee them on their first few missions. I can easily sidestep spoiling the game by saying "you young'uns need to think for yourselves" or "I ain't gonna be here to hold your hands all your life".
The kicker is to always have the future villain of the plot to somehow cause this mentor to be killed when the proverbial training wheels are ready to come off. This gives the players added motivation, helps them feel "loss" in their first campaign, and hopefully encourage some role playing.
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HyveMynd
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GMPC's
Feb 23, 2012 23:06:59 GMT -8
Post by HyveMynd on Feb 23, 2012 23:06:59 GMT -8
The kicker is to always have the future villain of the plot to somehow cause this mentor to be killed when the proverbial training wheels are ready to come off. I think it was CADave who brought this up in a past episode, but this is pretty much what every console RPG/adventure game does to get you started; your mentor or adopted parents send you off on some sort of mission and by the time you get back someone or something has destroyed/burned down your village or killed/abducted everyone there. I've never used GMPCs in a game before, but I do use major and recurring NPCs a lot. As I've said on multiple threads before, I tend to run (and enjoy) character-driven, relationship based games and so need compelling and interesting NPCs for the characters to interact with. Rather than try to create everything about the NPC before the players meet him/her, I just create enough for the NPC to feel real and then let further PC/NPC interaction create the rest. For example, in the Changeling game I ran the first NPC the players met upon returning to the real world was a Spring Court butterfly-girl stripper (the PCs fell out of the Hedge via a giant mirror in the back room of a strip club). I hadn't meant for her to come off as weak and pathetic, but the more the players talked to her and asked her questions about her past, the more pathetic she became. The players even started to refer to her as 'Monika the Doormat'. She changed roles and grew because of the way the PCs interacted with her; I gave her a drug addiction and abandonment issues and then dropped hints about these problems to the PCs after I saw that they considered her a friend. Bam. Instant plot hook. I knew that if I used her as "bait" at least one of the players would bite on it and get involved no matter what the story thread was. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you should let the players elevate an NPC to GMPC status. If they ask for a mentor to come along on an adventure, then he/she goes with them. If they don't, then he/she doesn't. But I wouldn't foist a GMPC onto the players.
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GMPC's
Feb 24, 2012 5:06:35 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2012 5:06:35 GMT -8
I think it was CADave who brought this up in a past episode, but this is pretty much what every console RPG/adventure game does to get you started; your mentor or adopted parents send you off on some sort of mission and by the time you get back someone or something has destroyed/burned down your village or killed/abducted everyone there. OR the mentor turns out to have been a villain all the time, just waiting for the right moment to reveal themselves! Muahaha...
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GMPC's
Feb 24, 2012 8:02:53 GMT -8
Post by jazzisblues on Feb 24, 2012 8:02:53 GMT -8
The kicker is to always have the future villain of the plot to somehow cause this mentor to be killed when the proverbial training wheels are ready to come off. I think it was CADave who brought this up in a past episode, but this is pretty much what every console RPG/adventure game does to get you started; your mentor or adopted parents send you off on some sort of mission and by the time you get back someone or something has destroyed/burned down your village or killed/abducted everyone there. ... I concur ... I wouldn't foist (good word usage by the way) an npc onto the party to go along as an ally. If they want him to go along I'll consider it from the npc's point of view and try to decide what he would do. In my Pathfinder game at OrcCon 2012 the pc's encountered a group of 3' tall intelligent squirrels. (Yes you did read that right.) Think Robin Hood only as a squirrel and you have the exact right idea. After talking with the squirrels for a bit Bill Roper asked their leader if he wanted to come with them since after all this threat was endangering his forest and his people as much as anything else. He thought about that for a moment and decided that the large clumsy elf was right and he would go along to keep them (if nothing else) out of mischief in his forest. He wasn't much of a factor in the fight against the big bad monster but he was there and he tried. Cheers, JiB
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GMPC's
Feb 25, 2012 2:46:07 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2012 2:46:07 GMT -8
If you don't have a large enough party, the PCs may need an NPC to fullfil a role they can not cover. I usually play with a small number of players 2-3 so I may need to make such a character, usually a specialist, however I never consider them a GMPC.
For instance in my Savage W. Sundered Skies game I gave them a dwarven engineer NPC for their ship, since they couldn't fill in that role themselves, although he had a personality, a backstory and goals of his own, he was not quite in the same "level of heroism" as the PCs. Actually he was a terrible coward who though that his lack of courage came from a curse from his god, so he was reluctant or half-arsed anything that he wasn't very good at, like fighting. He did his job well and didn't steal the PCs glory.
Hmmm.... Note to self: Make an awesome superpowered GMPC for the party only to die in the first combat in a "shit just got real" situation.
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