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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2012 11:30:04 GMT -8
I've got a question for anyone familiar with GURPS 3rd edition.
A little over a year ago I bought a big stack of GURPS books and wrote up a great fantasy campaign to run that was set in Yrth. I let the players make whatever they wanted, because I thought it was a point buy system and there for must be balanced. The one guy in our group who has a tendancy to break every game he touches made a were-tiger. Well, it turns out that tigers are about the most powerful things in this setting. He was killing everything, it got rediculous. And, about every few sessions he was picking up a new were-form. When combat started I knew I had 3 seconds before he changed into the powerful-demon-killing-tiger, and I didn't want to get meta-gamey and have the bad guys attack him everytime while he was changing, so I had to act fast. As you can imagine this got old. By the way, all the other characters seemed fine and as expected.
I really liked the campaign story, and I was really bummed when it got flushed because of the were-tiger.
My question- I'd like to try GURPS again but is it balanced? Should I have known to say 'no' to the were-tiger character?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2012 12:10:01 GMT -8
If the player wants to make a broken combat monster and you impose no guidelines or limits on character creation, it will be out of control. The system is generic, so there are rules for EVERYTHING, you (the GM) should keep an eye on character creation. Just because the player can make a robot, a swarm-man or an invisible lepercaun with sniper-rifles for arms doesn't mean he should. The system itself is somewhat balanced, in a realistic way, and it rewards proactive thought (how do we approach the situation?) instead of reactive, like DnD (how do we beat the bad guys that the GM has thrown on us?).
As for the were-tiger specifically, I can see a lot of flaws in this character: How does he restrain himself after the bad guys are dead? Lycanthropes are notoriously uncontrollable, that's why it is called a curse. How do the NPCs and the authorities react to a loose killing machine in their settlement? If the fight goes bad, or enemy reinforcements arrive, how does he pull back in his rage? What happens when the full-moon comes, and the rest of the party is asleep? During these 3 seconds of him growing hair, claws and turning into an abomination, what stops every crossbow bolt in sight to become attracted to his soft unarmored fur?
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Post by Stu Venable on Feb 27, 2012 12:31:30 GMT -8
Yes, it's balanced. That said, no system that I've ever played in unbreakable (or unexploitable), and generic systems tend to be even more exploitable.
It's been a long time since I've looked at a 3rd Ed book, but doesn't it cost like 100 points to be a weretiger? I would ask what point-level your game is at.
4th Edition suggests (I think) 175 points w/ 75 in disads. I personally think this is WAY too high for a GM starting out with GURPS.
When I first started playing the players made characters at 100 points plus 35 points in disads.
They eventually will get up to the higher point levels as you give them XP, but their powers will grow along with your know of the game.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2012 2:56:24 GMT -8
It's just 33 points in the banestorm book, but it turns you into an "ordinary" tiger, I don't know how this can become broken since all you stats become the tiger's, including IQ. 17 ST is the best it has but claws deal thrust cutting, so it's nothing so overpowered unless the character has something like 26 brawling. No armor (DR1), no weapons and 10 dodge doesnt make for much of a fighter. Or did the player ignore the tamplate and made his own version?
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Post by Stu Venable on Feb 28, 2012 7:51:10 GMT -8
Was he playing the character like he had a tiger's IQ? (that would be my first question).
Thrust/cutting at ST 17 isn't huge: 1d6+1
Is Banestorm 4th ed or 3rd? Back in the old GURPS fantasy (or really old GURPS magic) books, I think the Were creatures were pretty powerful.
I seem to recall you triple your strength or something crazy like that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2012 18:53:34 GMT -8
Ya, the book says IQ is unchanged, it does triple his STR, and it's a 40 point advantage with 5 more for deliberate changing. Also, once you buy in other were-forms are real cheap.
Just seems over-powered to me.
T
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Post by Stu Venable on Feb 28, 2012 21:20:50 GMT -8
Normally, stuff like that is built with character points, just like characters.
It seems awfully cheap for 3x ST at 40 points. For it to balance out, there would need to be LOTs of disads when in tiger form.
40 points would only buy you 3 or 4 points of ST, not 20.
If it doesn't have the disads to account for the 3x ST for 40 points, I'd declare it broken.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Mar 1, 2012 18:12:24 GMT -8
Bear in mind that I've neither played nor even read a GURPS book (sorry Stu ) so I'll be throwing out some general advice here. I think taronicos nailed it; it seems like the player in question is a power gamer, or at least likes breaking the system, as you yourself said. Allowing this guy the freedom to make any character he wants was probably a mistake. Sorry to hear your campaign got flushed because of it. I realize that first impressions are hard to shake and that you're reluctant to try GURPS again, but don't let one bad experience prevent you from playing. The way I see it, GURPS wouldn't have survived as long as it has and have so many fans if the system was 'broken'. I'm known for being a hard assed GM when approving characters concepts in my group. But that's because I want my players to put thought into their PCs. If a player says "I want to have this super awesome power because it's cool and I'll be a bad ass!" I usually say "Great. Work it into your backstory and character concept." If they can't do that, then they don't get the power. If one of my players wanted to be a lycanthrope and we weren't playing a game where that would be a usual character choice (like Werewolf: the Forsaken for example), I'd ask them a bunch of questions. "How and when did you become a lycanthrope?" "Is it a secret, or do other people know what you are?" "How do others react to you if they do know your secret?" "Have you ever killed a loved one or friend before while you were raging?" "Is the werewolf who created you still around, and if so how do you feel towards this 'creator'?" And most importantly "Why do you, the player, want to play as a lycanthrope?" If all the player can give me is an answer about how cool the mechanics are, I'm probably going to say no.
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Post by doctorlovecraft on Mar 3, 2012 16:55:14 GMT -8
Yes. the the Weretiger (as well as the rest of the Weres) in the GURPS Compendium are broken. It states as much in the 3rd edition supplement Shapeshifters. The original point cost were arbitrary (made before GURPS was balanced) and made so that a 100 point character can be a Were. If you want to continue using Shapeshifters in 3rd edition I suggest you pick up the Shapeshifters book. The cost are dramatically different in it (259 points for a basic Weretiger).
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