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Post by Stu Venable on Jul 17, 2015 13:02:04 GMT -8
I got both. I'm going to try Requiem first, I think.
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on Jul 17, 2015 17:51:09 GMT -8
Onyx didn't have permission - until recently - to do 2d editions of the nWoD corebooks. That's changed now though.
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Ecrodorias
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Post by Ecrodorias on Jul 19, 2015 0:37:38 GMT -8
Having played both for a while, i think that v20 would be easier if you want the rules more in one place and some good setting ideas to use. Requiem is good if you want to have a more customised setting, but will require more work. I personally prefer v20, but i have loved playing and running both.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Sept 6, 2015 17:46:40 GMT -8
Raising this thread from the dead due to a comment from Stu Venable comment on a recent episode. I am pretty sure Vampire: the Requiem Second Edition is a stand alone book. You shouldn't need any other book to run the game. I got a POD copy (back when it was called Blood & Smoke: the Strix Chronicles) and I am damn near absolutely sure it does not reference any other ruleset. Am I wrong here, or has that been other people's experience as well?
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on Sept 7, 2015 14:36:35 GMT -8
AFAIK you're right.
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Post by Stu Venable on Sept 8, 2015 6:32:02 GMT -8
It isn't. There are game mechanics missing. I even lent it to Tim, and he confirmed.
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on Sept 8, 2015 6:49:32 GMT -8
Interesting - Onyx Path bills it as:
"No other rulebooks are required, and the rules are fully compatible with The God-Machine Chronicle."
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Post by Probie Tim on Sept 8, 2015 8:36:19 GMT -8
Yup. I just went through my PDF copy and searched for "World of Darkness Rulebook". I didn't jot down the page numbers, and I hate to be "that guy" copy/pasting from the rulebook, but without the core WoD rulebook (or the God Machine Chronicles), you don't have: A full list of merits and flaws ("For additional Merits available to all characters, see The World of Darkness Rulebook or The God-Machine Chronicle"), anything but the basic system rules ("This section contains the basic rules for playing Vampire: The Requiem. More information, system variants, and examples can be found in the World of Darkness Rulebook and The God-Machine Chronicle."), a full explanation of Virtue and Vice ("This is just a brief touch on the topic; for more, look to The World of Darkness Rulebook or The God-Machine Chronicle."), all the dice rolling variants ("The Storytelling System has a few variations in how dice rolls work. This section lists the ones used most commonly in Vampire: The Requiem; for a more complete list see the World of Darkness Rulebook"), social maneuvers on PCs ("Suggestions for using Social maneuvering on other player-controlled characters can be found in the The World of Darkness Rulebook or The God-Machine Chronicle."), teamwork actions ("A battering ram uses a Teamwork action (see the World of Darkness Rulebook, p. 134), allowing up to four participants."), abjuration/warding/exorcism rules ("The Strix is vulnerable to abjuration, warding, and exorcism as though it were a spirit, using the rules in The World of Darkness Rulebook or The God-Machine Chronicle"), playing human characters ("Combined with The World of Darkness Rulebook or The God-Machine Chronicle, this appendix helps you create the characters you need to tell those stories."), or playing ghouls ("To create a ghoul player character, first follow the character creation instructions in The World of Darkness Rulebook or The God-Machine Chronicle."). So there is enough to play a basic game of V:tR in 2E... I mean... it's playable, sure, but if you want to play a full game with all the options you do need the other books. And it seems silly to not include weaknesses for the main bad guys of the game or playing ghouls. EDIT: I should also add that I am a little biased, because I think the old WoD is way better than the new WoD and I heart me some Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition.
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on Sept 8, 2015 12:34:28 GMT -8
So, basically, it's like having the PHB but not the DMG or MM.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Sept 8, 2015 14:45:52 GMT -8
Well, color me disappointed. So you could play with just Requiem 2e, but it's written as if you're missing a good chunk of stuff. Again, that kind of stinks. Especially since I think the rules for Requiem and NWoD are much easier than OWoD. Bummer.
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on Sept 8, 2015 14:56:17 GMT -8
I don't have my stuff on hand right now, but wasn't VtM 2d Ed pretty much that same shape - lacking concrete rules for creating humans and ghouls, and having shovel-loads of near-necessary rules shifted off to a Storyteller's Guide?
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on Sept 8, 2015 14:57:39 GMT -8
(And keep in mind I've only skimmed Strix Chronicle. I still get a little mind-fucked trying to keep oWoD and nWoD separated.)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2015 2:07:44 GMT -8
Since this has been revived I might as well throw in my two cents:
NWoD is a better game but without the refinement of V20. V20 had 20 years to end up in the form it is in. It's original form was not all contained in a single book with cleaned up rules. Why that would be expected from NWoD is a mystery to me. What NWoD has is a better rules system. 2nd edition NWoD is specifically a big improvement over previous offerings. I'll breakdown a few reasons for that below. - Target numbers are now static and all modification is done to the size of the pool which reduces workload for the Storyteller and makes the game easier to understand.
- Second edition focuses on intention, and along with other improvements (see below) forces the game away from a murderhobo mindset.
- Conditions from second edition Co-opt the players into willing participants of the story. No more does being mind controlled have to be all bad. By being willing to partake in the drama the players can earn beats (5 beats equals 1 experience point). Failure is celebrated, as is loss of control.
- Combat has been streamlined to remove aspects of gameplay nearly no one understood. Instead simple rules have been put into place which keep the gaming moving and fun for the whole group (not just the asshole with celerity X).
- The disciplines have been cleaned up to feel very cool and thematic without wasting endless pages on what only npcs are capable of (looking at you rank 6+ disciplines).
- The economy of willpower expenditure to recovery has been vastly altered to encourage more active use compared to previous editions.
And of course these are only a few of the benefits. The comparison is like taking 3.5 D&D with its many supplements and comparing to 5th Edition. There really is no contest. With the conversion guides out to playing OWoD material in NWoD, there is no reason not to choose the better system. If having it all in a single book was really so important, I don't know why you'd buy it to begin with. Stick to savage worlds or GURPS and steal what lore you want. If you want to work with a system and are willing to put in the effort, NWoD is the clear choice.
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on Sept 11, 2015 3:59:22 GMT -8
I think the rub here lies in 2d Ed Requiem billing itself as a complete game but being chock full of holes where it refers you to the GMC rulebook.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 16:48:43 GMT -8
I think the rub here lies in 2d Ed Requiem billing itself as a complete game but being chock full of holes where it refers you to the GMC rulebook. GMC is a straight up better book anyhow. The revision of virtues and vices and the integrity/breaking point changes (from previous set morality charts) was such a huge jump forward. Requiem took a giant dump on GMC when it replaced these fantastic rules with bullshit plucked from v20 to please some old grognard who will never by Requiem anyhow! And the fact is that you still need the NWoD core book and GMC if you plan to run anything 2nd ed NWoD right now. The core book still has all the write ups on each skill and attribute and most of the general information about how the game is run. GMC provides updated to sections of that first book. In my opinion it is a travesty that they tried to go back to the complete book per line model. Part of the awesome that is NWoD is that it is modular. All each line was doing was putting a template over top of the basic mortal game in the core book. It was actually cheaper to buy the base book and then a splat for each game line because they didn't have to reprint all the rules in each book. Instead we are being saddled with paying for rules we've bought before! All hail morons who want to lug more books and pay for content five times over!
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