tomes
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Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Dec 10, 2015 11:56:17 GMT -8
Hey folks,
We've had this conversation before, however I wanted to ask about the situation where you have a ship crewed by multiple players, and you want all of them to be able to assist with (instead of only the pilot making piloting rolls, for example).
Let's assume they are in a situation that would normally focus around one player, e.g. the Pilot (usually this situation would be combat, however you could extend this to be situations where a weapons engineer wants to assist with a negotiation; e.g. by enabling weapon systems that are visible by the opponent).
Using generic terms like +Attack or -Parry (defend), I have come up with a list of how some of these roles can support the situation. Anyone got others they can think of? I want ideas for a possible upcoming sci-fi ship battle in coming months.
Captain: • Great coordination: Small bonus on two PC rolls • Morale boost: Bonus on an individual PCs roll • Whip crew into a frenzy: +Attack
Piloting: • Tactical advantaged position: +Attack or +Parry • Shield positioned correctly: +Toughness • Defensive maneuvers: +Parry • Provide a possible ramming
Communication: • Distracting comms burst: Opponent gets –Attack or –Parry • Hack opponents shields: Opponent gets –Toughness • Prevent enemies from communicating: Multiple opponents get small negative on rolls •
Research: • Find opponent weakness: +Attack • Find how to counteract opponent: +Parry or +Toughness
Engineering: • Boost correct shields: +Parry or +Toughness • Boost weapons: +Attack
Weapons: • Distracting fire: Opponent gets –Attack or –Parry • Lock weapons on a target: Opponent morale affected
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2015 1:43:46 GMT -8
I think you are trying to be too setting agnostic to be useful. The actions taken by a PC group bridge crew of a large ship (space or otherwise) is going to look vastly different to a game set on a smaller merchant vessel (age of sail, firefly, starwars). The two aforementioned options are only the two most common to my mind. Without a doubt there are others that will be different in their own right.
My first consideration is a matter of scale. A rogue trader bringing his ship's lance battery to bear will be vastly different than the archmilitant who is leading the troopers repelling enemy boarding actions. While you could handle both actions as some overarching "ship" action that intends to sum up a larger engagement, that often is not satisfying. Instead I look to a system of flash points that effect the larger action. This often means the focus will shift back and forth to the various pc's in the place of importance with players taking the roles of important secondary npcs when their characters cannot participate. The results of the "zoom in" scene often adds details or changes the larger scenes. Perhaps the boarding parties are trying to disable the lances that the captain is bringing to bear. The results of that action will dictate if the lances are able to fire or if some have been damaged.
Your problematic games are actually the smaller ones in my mind. Because there is no large crew to participate the GM is unable to zoom in on a moment in the action as easily. Instead you are constantly trying to figure out what various pc's should be doing who do not have as direct a role to play. In a meta game way, the party has been split by a division in skills. Even those with skills that might apply are forced to wait for that moment to happen (often the fate of the mechanic). Even your gunners are bereft of interesting actions to take. Decisions aren't meaningful and it can often feel like they are just along for the ride while making the occasional roll.
My key suggestion is not one many will like. You need to ditch the idea of these grand battles in space/on the high sea. They are boring. Unless you intend to move each PC to a fighter type craft or make them the captain of their own ship in a fleet, your pc's will be struggling to stay in the spotlight. Even the fighter idea has its own problems as many characters will not have the skills or abilities to compete in this different arena. If your goal is to go this route then it is imperative that each PC can handle themselves in a craft. Imagine a fast and the furious movie where the pc's couldn't drive or compete in the race and they sit around while the group's Paul Walker gets to have all the fun. Snooze.
Often many games based on ships use them as a plot device to get to the story. The fun part is on yonder planet/landmass or in some kind of boarding action. There is a certain logic to games like D&D that give everyone a role around combat. You get scenes where everyone is relevant. The key is to spend your time on those scenes and make ones that are more exclusionary short and sweet. Nothing wrong with flashing to the captain who makes a roll to lead the crew, but then you need to get back to everyone being involved and having fun. In my experience this does not occur by handing out a sheet of extended actions thateveryone can perform to correct for the fact that they are mostly irrelevant.
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Dec 14, 2015 22:02:55 GMT -8
All very good points. And I agree with much.
But, I am thinking of a specific scenario where it is a ship to ship issue, but it isn't strictly "combat" in the sense of "roll to hit", "roll for damage". I guess what I want though is a nice list of suggested interesting "flash points", for example. Ideas to help generate ideas. My list was very mechanical, but I'm happy for just fun ideas on how those specific roles, or ones like it, could do different and interesting things in a scenario given that they aren't just the pilot or gunner.
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Post by henryhankovitch on Jan 17, 2016 23:21:04 GMT -8
Rogue Trader, unsurprisingly, has a lot of rules attached to this sort of thing. It sets up ship-to-ship combat as a tactical skirmish game, with ships moved around on a tabletop map. Each PC is meant to have some sort of role in the combat, enabling the players' ship to fight more effectively. Each turn they can choose actions that affect the performance of the ship.
Rogue Trader (Captain)- can hand out "inspiration" bonuses to other PC or NPC crewmen, and can make leadership tests to enable large-group tasks like damage control or boarding parties.
Void-Master (helmsman/bridge officer) - most often is used as a helmsman, making piloting checks to perform difficult maneuvers, evade fire, etc. Can also specialize in things like gunnery or sensors.
Speaking of which, weapons control and sensor scans are something that different characters can take on--there isn't so much of a dedicated PC role for them. Sensor scans use perception checks to do things like identify enemy ship equipment, damage assessment, or assist with gunnery. Psykers and Navigators can use their powers to further enable the ship via precognition, tracking, or concealment.
Tech-Priests are the engineers, and do what you would expect. If they want to boost the ship's speed or maneuverability, they have to perform mechanics checks each turn. They're also required to repair damaged ship components.
As I mentioned, though, this takes the form of wargame-style tactical combat. Players can take moments to roleplay whenever they like, but the GM needs to make sure that the mechanical elements move quickly and smoothly. You have several players controlling one ship on the battle mat, so you don't want to leave them sitting around waiting for their turn unnecessarily. Keeping things fast and dramatic is important.
The other extreme is to go very narrative heavy. Have the PCs do very little to mechanically affect the outcome of the battle; instead, concentrate on setting up dramatic situations that require their attention. Treat the battle as a series of vignettes, like putting out an engine fire, sealing off a breached section, or scrutinizing sensor output for the sign of an elusive enemy.
I do think you generally have to go extremely high-level (the battle as a ship-to-ship wargame) or very low-level (the battle as personal scenes of dramatic action). Don't try to straddle the difference. And most importantly, steal ideas from things like naval or submarine stories. There should be no end of situations on a ship aside from manning the helm or the guns. The climactic sequence of Das Boot, for instance, basically involves sealing water leaks, bailing water, and fixing engines...while lying at the bottom of the sea. I think you'll get more mileage out of that sort of thing, than focusing on the Star-Wars-style dogfighting and barnstorming.
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Kurt
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Professional 6-year old.
Posts: 28
Preferred Game Systems: Rolemaster, Space Master, Etherscope, Aftermath!, AD&D/3.5/5.0, Fate and Savage Worlds
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Currently Running: Nothing, currently.
Favorite Species of Monkey: Jamaicanadian Spidermonkey
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Post by Kurt on Jan 20, 2016 23:50:43 GMT -8
There are always Repair rolls and tasks for all the damage that the ship is taking, Sensors to plot escape routes, ejecting cargo from the airlocks, medical support for the wounded, etc. You can also suggest that the 'untrained' character make a bold move and take over someone else's position when a terrible event takes someone out of play for a scene. I had more that I was going to list but a phone call cut my time short by an hour. Kurt.
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Post by jazzisblues on Jan 29, 2016 8:12:03 GMT -8
One thing I've done with success is to have everyone who isn't piloting or shooting to make a roll to do their thing and that contributes to a bonus for those who are piloting or shooting. Of course, the inverse can also be true. If someone fails spectacularly (critical fail) they can actually make life harder for those who are piloting or shooting. It's not a perfect solution, but it has worked for me in the past.
Cheers,
JiB
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