outofprintGM
Apprentice Douchebag
one man's wilderness is another man's playground
Posts: 59
Preferred Game Systems: anything thts fun for the group to play
Currently Playing: D&D5E, Blood of Heroes, FFG Star Wars,
Currently Running: Blood of Heroes, Night Black Agents, Pathfinder, Rolmaster,FFG Star Wars, Monster of the week,
Favorite Species of Monkey: spider monkey
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Post by outofprintGM on Apr 6, 2016 5:49:55 GMT -8
in the last couple of shows there has been some heavy bashing of the Role Mater system, as it is a system I have had a ton of fun running in the past i feel the need to come to its defence
Let’s start with the common criticism’s
it’s to deadly
the combat system is weird
combat take too long
it takes too long to make characters
there are way too many charts in the game
theirs to many supplements
so now let’s answer the comments
it’s to deadly
yes it is a more believable system than say Dungeons and Dragons (whatever edition) but as i say to players in my rolmaster games “IT’S NOT D&D!!!” fight smarter or use your skills and avoid combat.
The combat system is weird
yes there is more to the combat system than the stranded roll a D20 and get higher than a predetermined number. In rolmaster you have and OB (offensive bonus) and DB (defence bonus) armours reduce the level of critical you will receive if/when hit. Most players problem is coming from D&D with the Hit Point system they are used to damage being nothing more than a number, in rolmaster damage hurts the character. If you get hit by a tree lobbed at you by a giant it will hurt like fuck.
Combat take too long
yes a single round of combat would take longer than one inD&D but combat over all don’t last as long. I have many times when a lucky roll has killed off the BBG in the first round of combat (shit happens LOL). One way to speed it up is to give players copy’s if the attack tables for the weapons they are lugging around.
It takes too long to make characters
yes it can take a long time to make a character especially with new players thers lots of options and skills to chose from but i think that leads to far more rounded characters not every skill is for killing critters and selling any loot you took. One of my friends Paul Barton describes the problem new players have as “Analysis Paralysis”
There are way too many charts in the game
yes there are a lot of charts in rolmaster, but no one said you have to use them all as with most games its a tool kit only use the tools you need to.
theirs to many supplements
yep once again thers are plenty of supplemental splat books but they are not needed the only books you need are character & campaign law, arms and claw law and Spell Law
in summery
Rolemaster IS NOT D&D!!! (i am only using D&D as an industry benchmark)
Rolemaster is not for everyone with players who have the right kind of mind set its a brilliant game but it’s not the game for everyone, but the constant running down of the system might scare off possible new players who would love the system as i do.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 0:38:46 GMT -8
Lots of people love D&D, and that is a steaming pile of dog shit. Love doesn't have anything to do with bad design. I have never read rolemaster, so I won't comment on its quality.
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Post by Kainguru on Apr 7, 2016 12:23:22 GMT -8
Lots of people love D&D, and that is a steaming pile of dog shit. Love doesn't have anything to do with bad design. I have never read rolemaster, so I won't comment on its quality. Aaron
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Post by Probie Tim on Apr 7, 2016 12:47:18 GMT -8
I'll admit, I've always been Rolemaster curious. Never played it, though. For a while I had the most recent Rolemaster Fantasy Roleplaying core book and flipped through it a bit, but I wound up getting rid of it. I currently have the Rolemaster Express PDF which seems pretty cool (although they can't sell it any longer for legal reasons).
I also have a full catalog of HARP PDFs, which appeals to me more than does Rolemaster. I'm surprised that HARP didn't take off more than it did.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Apr 7, 2016 13:55:49 GMT -8
As a veteran GM of Rolemaster, I have many good things to say about it. My best fantasy campaign ever (The Goblin Coast - where the players became slave traders without realising it) used the system. But growing up, and having less time to spend on prep, I left it behind many years ago. It's a system that rewarded hard work. But the work was very hard.
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Post by ayslyn on Apr 7, 2016 16:29:29 GMT -8
Rolemaster is, as Fredix hinted at, very prep intensive. Much more so for the gm than for the players.
However, that being said, a well run game of Rolemaster is a beautiful thing.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 21:26:05 GMT -8
Kainguru My point is that liking something has no bearing on how good it is. Lots of people like Taco Bell despite the fact that they serve meat that has to be called beefy, cuz it ain't actually beef. There wasn't so much of a defense of rolemaster as an attempt to alter your expectations of it. Some of the points were almost taken with a shrug. The game is complicated. Is there some good that comes out of that? I can't really say based on what is written here. So it kinda comes down to someone defending the likes of Taco Bell. Sure we all have memories there and occasionally get a craving for it, but we know it is... Taco Bell. Why would someone bother running this game? We know it has downsides, so what balances those? Will anyone defend this system without a but in the same sentence?
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Apr 7, 2016 21:59:26 GMT -8
Kainguru My point is that liking something has no bearing on how good it is. You're right, @stevensw. Liking something doesn't mean it's good, and you don't have to like something just because other people say it is good. So why the need to shit all over other people's fun? Lots of people love D&D, and that is a steaming pile of dog shit.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 22:04:32 GMT -8
I never said those people are shit. I said the system was. I eat Taco Bell occasionally (and usually regret it within the hour). Eat crap all you want to, as long as you know it's crap.
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Post by Kainguru on Apr 7, 2016 22:47:34 GMT -8
I never said those people are shit. I said the system was. I eat Taco Bell occasionally (and usually regret it within the hour). Eat crap all you want to, as long as you know it's crap. So who made you the ultimate authority to pass judgement? The difference is one of being subjective vs objective - if you can make an objective observation that positively contributes to a discussion, great. If all you have to offer are negative subjective opinions then shut the fuck up or fuck the fuck off. We get it: YOU don't like DnD, YOU don't think it's a good system, YOU think we should all prefer a certain style of play, YOU think people who play a different style of game are somehow less than YOU. You know what? I couldn't give a creamy monkey toss on the windscreen what YOU think if that's all you have to contribute. YOU think too much of your own opinion and lack the maturity to differentiate between your beliefs and being able to understand and tolerate the beliefs of others or reasonably enter in a discourse about those differences. By reasonable I mean approaching in the Socratian manner - being that in which both sides can learn from the other. YOU don't get to come around to my house and tell my friends how they should be having fun or what they should like or dislike - don't accept it from manipulative media moguls like Murdoch so certainly won't accept it from an arrogant self opinionated little twat Aaron (and now to hit 'BLOCK')
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Apr 7, 2016 22:59:36 GMT -8
I never said those people are shit. I said the system was. I eat Taco Bell occasionally (and usually regret it within the hour). Eat crap all you want to, as long as you know it's crap. Seriously, you are starting to sound like saelorn going on about Fate.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 23:03:23 GMT -8
Kainguru Do you want the objective reasons for why it's worse or are you just running your mouth? I think you've already made up your mind and it would not matter at all if I wrote a dissertation on why D&D is objectively awful. That said, if you do want the break down I'm always happy to provide those objective reasons. We could even start by breaking down why it is not a great narrative or simulationist game. Anyone know what HP is yet? I'm debating giving out a cash prize to the first person who can tell me what they represent and have their answer make sense in gameplay. Or would you prefer how the die mechanic is way too random to simulate anything (a master craftsman is as likely to fail as a greenhorn is to pass a check)? Or should we focus more on the narrative and mention how the only mechanic that supports it in any substantive way is inspiration (which almost never gets used, but I digress). Just because you can make something work does not mean it is right or good. The main factor that determines if you will have fun in a D&D game is how good your gm is at General GMing. Not D&D specific, but being a good teller of stories. Describing, acting, planning, etc. I suppose you could attribute the same thing to many games... But not to the same extent. At any rate, fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Apr 7, 2016 23:18:51 GMT -8
All of those things you just mentioned are subjective, @stevensw.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 23:44:29 GMT -8
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Apr 7, 2016 23:45:53 GMT -8
Ah fuck it, I'm blocking him.
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