fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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HJRP 19-13
Jun 18, 2017 23:37:24 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by fredrix on Jun 18, 2017 23:37:24 GMT -8
Am I seriously the first to comment on this episode?
Anyhow just a quick note to agree with the team and disagree with Neil. Though the forum discussion Probie referred to wasn't strictly about character death it did come up. A random, even mundane death can be powerful, and made more so BECAUSE of the narrative opportunities now suddenly shut off.
But it depends on what you are playing. You can choose to play a pulpy story, where heroes hardly ever die, you can even do that in a grimdark setting where everyone else dies horribly. Or you can choose to play a story where death is a real possibility - i'm reminded of the first ORE game, Godlike, where players are advised to a create a whole squad of (superhero) soldiers, because death is frequent and (a bit like Paranoia) you'll likely get through a few characters in a game.
But I don't recommend what Neil seems to be suggesting which is replace death with other "penalties" across all your games. Variety is after all the spice of life, or death.
Neil should check out Gumshoe 121 though. In that system, designed for one GM and one player, the death of the only PC would really stop the narrative, so the card based consequences includes many alternative suggestions that Neil is looking for. The first volume in that potential series is Cthulhu Confidential.
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Post by lowkeyoh on Jun 19, 2017 1:55:08 GMT -8
Haven't listened yet, but on the topic of death alternatives, our table has implemented Dim Mak. 'Random' deaths don't kill your character, but instead mark you as dead. You have to die, but maybe not because a kobold crit you twice. Maybe next session there's going to be an opportunity for a heroic sacrifice. Maybe the boss wizard explodes with magic energy and vaporized you. No matter what, both player and GM has input on how the character dies.
It's felt kinda gamey the few times it's come up, but we all agree it's a nice compromise between uneventful death and no consequence for combats gone bad.
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TheGerkuman
Apprentice Douchebag
Why you no problem make
Posts: 76
Preferred Game Systems: Any variety of D&D or WFRP 2e.
Currently Playing: Anything I can find
Currently Running: I haven't run in a long time. Either sort.
Favorite Species of Monkey: Capuchin or Spider.
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Post by TheGerkuman on Jun 19, 2017 3:09:41 GMT -8
Since no-one brought it up, might as well do it here.
Jackercon starts Wednesday! Hop to it if you haven't already.
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Post by Probie Tim on Jun 19, 2017 5:25:29 GMT -8
Jackercon starts Wednesday! Hop to it if you haven't already. We totally failed on both that and Free RPG Day. *ding* Shame. Shame. Shame. *ding* Shame. Shame. Shame. *ding* Shame. Shame. Shame.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Jun 19, 2017 5:29:06 GMT -8
Man, I wish I could, but I have a maaaaaajor exam coming up.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Jun 19, 2017 6:10:30 GMT -8
Major Exam! o7
I am woefully unprepared for Jackercon but I may offer just random online games later on between events.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Jun 19, 2017 6:15:15 GMT -8
Yeah, my qualification exam for teaching. If I blow this, I am fooked.
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Post by uncommonman on Jun 19, 2017 6:52:12 GMT -8
Yeah, my qualification exam for teaching. If I blow this, I am fooked. Then don't blow... /s And try to get enough sleep the night before, it does wonders for your performance during tests.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Jun 19, 2017 6:53:46 GMT -8
I shouldnt be worried. I took it four years ago with no prep time beforehand, and aced it. But now having six weeks of lead time, I am burning an ulcer thru my gut.
Anyhow, how 'bout them RPGs?
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Post by uncommonman on Jun 19, 2017 7:18:13 GMT -8
I shouldnt be worried. I took it four years ago with no prep time beforehand, and aced it. But now having six weeks of lead time, I am burning an ulcer thru my gut. Anyhow, how 'bout them RPGs? I'm having some problems getting the online group together now during the summer but I look forward to playing with jonas on Wednesday.
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Post by ericfromnj on Jun 19, 2017 8:12:39 GMT -8
Using another LARP example when thinking about death.
Different players at the table may want different things. Some may want to not die and others want that risk. In the LARP I go to death is a very real risk. There can be resurrection but some people who want to play with death as a major risk simply worship gods who disapprove of resurrection. This way people who have invested the time and money into their characters and don't want to (or can't afford to) buy a whole new set of stuff due to a random bandit attack can have that option while those that want that risk can have their option too.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 16:45:22 GMT -8
Loved the show, as usual.
On character death: I agree that there needs to be a discussion before the campaign during Session Zero about death and the effects. A good example I think of and use for campaigns was the old show Babylon 5. Every character had an arc designed for them, and JMS also wrote in several 'trapdoors' for the character to leave and return as the actor's schedule mutated. In the end, it worked out amazing because Michael O'haire, who was the lead character a massive mystery was built around, had schizophrenia manifest during the series in real life. He left for treatment and his character was sent off to be an ambassador, and he returned when better to wrap up his arc.
I know I like to quote John Wick a lot, but his attitude in 7th Sea is for a character to die and not just Fall Down takes a deliberate action - be it self-sacrifice, or stupidly pulling yourself up from Fallen Down and charging back in. Death isn't the worst punishment; as he says, look at Count of Monte Cristo, 20 years trapped in a 10x10 prison cell is far far worse.
I think some systems, and definitely LARPs where you may have a very distinctive garb for your character, need some more discussion about death/maiming/retiring characters, but others it's almost assumed (like the Paranoia example).
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Post by joecrak on Jun 19, 2017 19:44:05 GMT -8
I'm more of the type that enjoys when Death in a game has meaning behind it, but it depends on the game you're playing.
Like, L5R. One session our group was playing and myself and another player died super early in the session. My character from fighting zombies, his character for trying to bar a door from an oni. So I had to spend the rest of the session making a character that I wasn't even going to get to play that night. I could have left, but they were all in my apartment. So...that wasn't fun. But that GM turned out to be a huge jerk anyway, maybe I should write in with some of the horror stories I witnessed.
But in regards to a penalty thing...Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3e had a fun critical wound system, that could lead to permanent loss of eyes, limbs, or instant death.
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sdJasper
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 30
Preferred Game Systems: GURPS, Fudge, PDQ
Currently Running: GURPS Traveller Interstellar Wars
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Post by sdJasper on Jun 20, 2017 6:11:20 GMT -8
I totally agree that discussing with the group if PC death (1) can happen, (2) how permanent it is (magic/clones/etc), and (3) if it will only come at "dramatically appropriate" times or could happen in any combat/conflict.
My personal feelings is to go the more "realistic" route and let death happen if the dice fall that way. I consider RPGs their own thing, and am not trying to be a book or movie, so the whole idea of "heroes only die in epic ways" is not something I subscribe to. The great thing about RPGs is that you don't know what the dice are going to do, and letting that random element impact the story can lead to some great stories... BUT, the trick is that the GM and players need to be on the same page, and everyone be OK with loss and playing out that that means to them. If everyone is just going to gripe or be bummed out, then there isn't likely to be any great roleplay gained.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Jun 20, 2017 7:11:29 GMT -8
As someone who has been running regular Savage Worlds games at my FLGS and getting regular feedback you absolutely have to have a fear of death if you're looking for that "grit" setting like they're asking about. Gritty Damage + Blood and Guts + Critical Failures and enforcing the Golden Hour help quite a bit.
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