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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2012 18:26:56 GMT -8
I just double checked, there are Skills and Feats on the new character sheets - they are at the bottom of the Background and Theme sections respectively.
It looks to me like they are being downplayed a bit to make it easier to ignore them if you choose not to use them.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on May 28, 2012 22:45:32 GMT -8
I just had a listen of the 90 miute play test via Roll For Initiative. They were playing by-the-book OSR.
It sounded allot like 3x. AC was asending and Saves were ability based - two great innovations from AD&D 1e. But the skill and the malus and bonus conditions were a quagmire for us OSR.
That's my impression.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 15:54:35 GMT -8
Has anyone else had issues with the combat bonuses and where they come from? I've scoured the material but can find not logical reasoning for the extra bonuses that are not accounted for. For instance, the Dwarf Fighter has a Great Ax with an attack bonus of +6. With the strength bonus of +3 there is an obvious problem. Even if you account for Weapon Proficiency (we'll say +1 because it never says if it gives any bonuses at all) that still leaves two points unaccounted for. It can't be from Weapon Focus because that gives +2 to damage and the dexterity modifier is +1, which shouldn't be figured in anyway.
Second, I really hope they use a different way of doing skills. I understand that on the sheets it gives bonuses to certain skills but maybe they will say these are subjective to the DM's discretion. Perhaps, if the DM decides a player needs to stabilize another player, circumstances may make it seem like a survival check as opposed to a heal check.
I also remember reading on EN World that skills will be up to the DM to decide whether they are needed, so this could pay credence to my previous idea.
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Post by rickno7 on May 31, 2012 18:05:58 GMT -8
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Post by ayslyn on May 31, 2012 18:06:05 GMT -8
They mentioned in the latest chat that there were a number of bonuses that are from things that haven't been included in the rules packet. They suggest that you go by the character sheets at all time as those were the numbers used to balance the monsters.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 21:08:35 GMT -8
Thanks guy! It was seriously bothering me cause when I learn a system, I dissect like a 7th grader trying to prove he's a man
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2012 7:21:07 GMT -8
I remember in the Next Community on DDI they discussed whether some races have iconic weapons and wether they should get bonuses for those, so I just jumped to that conclusion...
The thing that is undefined for me is experience... I see the leveling guidelines on the character sheets and the encounter/fight XP values and monster XP values, but I'm not seeing where they define how XP is distributed. In 4e it was devided equally among the party , but in old-school you got XP for what you killed and the loot you collected with some modifiers based on your primary attributes...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 6:59:32 GMT -8
The lack of a skills system can be both liberating and terrifying, depending on the players. Unless I've read all the pre-release stuff wrong, this packet doesn't have a skill system only because they have not decided and designed it enough to release. They will have a skill system... unless something changed very recently. My understanding is that that packet includes the full skill system. It's as simple as this: 1) You make checks against different attributes, traveller style, depending on what you're trying to accomplish. Pick a lock? Dexterity. Bash a door? Strength. 2) If you have a skill, you get a bonus to that check. So if you have +3 Lock Picking, when you try to pick a lock you get +3 to that check. Even if the DM says you have to pick the lock using intelligence.Bam. Simple. I like it.
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clanhanna
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Post by clanhanna on Jun 6, 2012 11:35:50 GMT -8
Played in a first session of the playtest packet. Played the included human cleric of Pelor (healer cleric).
Being the fan of White Wolf that I am, I like the "skill check" mechanic that they use. Skills are not necessarily directly linked to one specific Attribute.
For instance: the cleric I was playing has a +3 to Religious Lore. When I tried to determine what monster we were up against based on my training as a priest, I rolled an Int check (+0), adding my Religious Lore bonus. However, if I were trying to figure out which ritual would be the best way to celebrate some religious observance, it would be a Wis check (+4) plus my Religious Lore check.
At least, I think that's how it worked. I was drinking heavily last night.
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Post by rickno7 on Jun 6, 2012 12:37:14 GMT -8
My understanding is that that packet includes the full skill system. The usage mechanics of skills are certainly in the packet, but the acquiring and raising of a skill is not included. We don't know if we get points to raise the skill as we level, or if the skills simply raise at a pre-determined rate. We do not know if its a pre-determined set by class, or if its a more open system of picking and choosing. That is what I am curious about.
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Post by Stu Venable on Jun 6, 2012 13:19:35 GMT -8
From what I've read, they're talking about getting rid of the power creep as you level.
HP will increase, but to hit bonuses, skill bonuses and the corresponding DCs will not.
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Post by Stu Venable on Jun 6, 2012 13:20:08 GMT -8
I figure that'll last until the min-maxers get their playtest surveys turned in...
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clanhanna
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Post by clanhanna on Jun 6, 2012 13:31:29 GMT -8
HP will increase, but to hit bonuses, skill bonuses and the corresponding DCs will not. That's my understanding as well. Also, AC does not increase with level either. The idea being that, even at high level, a pack of kobolds can still be a danger. They can still hit you, they just do less damage (as a percentage of your total HP). But, a dozen kobolds attacking you can still do damage to you, just the same as one Beholder (or some such).
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clanhanna
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Post by clanhanna on Jun 6, 2012 13:32:38 GMT -8
OH... and they got rid of Attacks of Opportunity. Therefore, they also got rid of Shifting (or "5-foot step" in 3.0/3.5 terminology).
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Jun 6, 2012 19:44:10 GMT -8
For me personally, I don't need any more on the skills than what is currently provided in the play test materials. I actually hope that WotC doesn't do anything more with skills than they already have, though I know that is false hope. Here's why I like them so much.
I'm a narrative guy, and I want any system I run to be flexible enough to allow my players a large amount creativity. D&D Next has done that with their Attribute Check rules. Under each Attribute description they've given a few examples of what kind of character actions would require a Check with that specific Attribute and what kind of event would call for a Saving Throw with that specific Attribute. That's all I need. I'm an intelligent person (at least I think so) and I'm able to make judgement calls regarding a) if an PC's action even requires an Attribute Check, b) what Attribute the player should use to make the Check, and c) the DC number for the Check based on the circumstances.
What I don't want WotC to do is include a huge list of skills with an insane amount of associated DC numbers where they'll try to cover every possible situation that will arise in the game. Just include a few more examples of related actions under each Attribute description to give beginning DMs an even better idea of what Attribute should be used to resolve what actions. Maybe a generic chart of DCs, again with a few action examples, that DMs can refer to when making a judgement call.
That brings me to skills. Currently, the only skills we've seen are the three or four found on each character sheet that are part of their Background. Each of those are the character's trained skills, and gives them a +3 bonus when making a Check related to that skill. Again, that's all I need. I don't even need a comprehensive skill list of all the skills found in the D&D Next game. In my opinion, this is a fantastic opportunity for WotC to really open the doors and allow players to customize their own characters. This is how I see it working.
DM: What's your PC's background? Player: I'm a blacksmith that became an adventurer after my family was killed by goblins. DM: Great! Now let's come up with four areas your PC is good in because of that background. Player: Um... Iron working of course. Appraisal because he knows how to spot the best quality goods. Maybe Bargaining, since he'd have to haggle with iron merchants a lot. One more. Uhn... Trade: Blacksmith? Because he can still make stuff? DM: Fantastic. So Iron working, Appraisal, and Bargaining all get +3, and Trade: Blacksmith allows you to make enough to support a common standard of living if you do smith work in your down time.
That's it. Just allow each player to choose three or four things their PC would have knowledge or skill in because of their background and those are their trained skills. Sure, the book could suggest skills that players could choose to fit a certain background, or advice on how not to make skills either too narrow or too broad. But I don't think we need a huge list.
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