hoobuk
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 80
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, D&D 5E, Savage Worlds, WoD20, Cortex+
Currently Playing: Vampire Dark Ages 20th Anniversary, D&D 5E, Pathfinder
Currently Running: Monster of the Week
Favorite Species of Monkey: Capucin
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Post by hoobuk on Feb 13, 2018 10:35:43 GMT -8
Just wanted to echo earlier comments but Adam was a great host and I hope it isn't too long until he's on again. Thanks @whodo! I'm on the books to return March 2nd!
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Feb 13, 2018 14:18:30 GMT -8
gina, Stu Venable, stork, hoobukListening to David from Tampa's email about "Social Contract", one thing that The Gauntlet has talked about is the "CATS" procedure, per proleary.com/2016/04/25/the-cats-method-a-story-telling-game-opening-ritual/. They use it pretty consistently when introducing a one shot game, and it makes a great way to pitch games regarding expectations, tone, etc. I've created a cheat sheet, which is found at drive.google.com/open?id=0B74GInw5m2ICXzd5Rl8wTUJmTkE (or the 3x5 version at drive.google.com/open?id=0B74GInw5m2ICa3ZKMHFnbWFxWVk). Notice that discussion of boundaries and such is just the bottom 1/4 of that page, and could include anything from the X-card to other mechanics, or none at all and just friendly understanding. Looks like this:
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Feb 13, 2018 14:25:43 GMT -8
I like the idea that conversations about boundaries is less about it being "not needed because noone is a douche", but more about it being normalized. Sometimes you can be an absolutely amazing friend and person, but still stomp on someone's boundaries because they have boundaries you haven't considered or known about.
Even as someone who loves dark games, you may sometimes just need a break. This type of conversation allows you to account for mood.
It also allows you to proactively ensure that someone who isn't up for your game doesn't play. Sometimes a player comes over wanting to be silly, and the game your playing isn't going to be that. How much better to say at the outset: We aren't doing a gonzo game, and having the person move on, then derail everyone else's good time.
At least, those are my thoughts thus far from the last few years in the hobby. It sounds invasive and all SJW to have these conversations, but in my experience it is short, to the point, and just a good habit... not different from laying groundwork such as telling people what an RPG is if they are a newb, or letting them know where the bathrooms are, or letting them know that it's OK to tell you when they've hit their limit. It's just formalizing a little bit of the "don't be a douche" mentality.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 16:30:59 GMT -8
I agree with the sentiment that Session Zero, if not before, is the best time to start a real discussion about boundaries and themes etc. This is also the best time for you to opt out if you hate a system, for example, or have no interest in the themes. I've opted out of games locally with my friends, knowing that when it cycles back around, I can jump in. The way we're set up is generally a case of running something like a pilot season - three sessions with a new setting/system/themes/etc to see if it grabs on, because like tv, some shows don't hit their stride until ep 2 or 3, once the world building is out of the way.
On a side note, I think that having boundaries or opinions about themes does NOT make someone a SJW - which is/can be every bit as offensive as calling people neckbeard. It IS someone's responsibility to express whatever their triggers or situations are, very true. Doing so does not make them a SJW. However, having anaphylactic shock over being offended by the pizza and because you 1) didn't eat all day and 2) didn't know that there even would BE pizza, is towards that border if not way over.
I did like the suggestion of using an anonymous Google Doc for people to fill out preferences and triggers. Even if you are in a very tight knit group of friends, there can be various issues that might not be comfortable to discuss in person or in front of the group. No matter how long or well you know someone, there may be things they don't discuss, so it may be these incestuous bisexual twins really make a player uncomfortable, or other things that may be in a PLAYER'S background and not the character's. For instance, a player may be totally uncomfortable with a realistic depiction in a game of an abusive relationship that leads to a murder (happened to someone who used to peripherally hang out with my first gaming group (from the email in 21-05); he would abuse her, she'd abuse him, and it ended with her loading a hunting rifle and shooting him while he sat in the La-z-boy. She got 8 years.)
TLDR As has been said: 1) Use your words; 2) It is on you to decide if the game is worth any problems; 3) Don't be a douche/dick/ABC; 4) Don't assume that just because you've known someone forever you can determine their comfort level on things.
Again, loved the show. I might say this was my favorite of any in the past couple seasons/as long as I've listened.
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Post by chronovore on Feb 14, 2018 0:13:05 GMT -8
Diplomacy: yes, by all means, explain the rules to new players. As I described to Stu Venable a ways back, Erik Aldrich organized a game back at CSULB before I ran into Stu’s GURPS game. There were a couple new players. Maybe most of us? Aldrich didn’t explain that it was based in deceit. He pranced around and gloated, after the equivalent of inviting an opponent to a basketball game and then engaging in a boxing match.
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Post by chronovore on Feb 14, 2018 0:18:00 GMT -8
Social contracts: these are a good way to make sure the players are all getting what they want out of the game, not just preventing hurt feelings or trauma.
Part of me realized today that my D&D DM isn’t keeping with what I want out of a game, as he has taken out last three 2-hour sessions and devoted them entirely to combat. Two fights split over three sessions.
I under that a half the other players are okay with that, and the one other guy is apathetic to it.
We could be doing much more, but it seems like I’m not right for the group. If I’d known ahead of time that the theme would largely be combat focused, I would have demurred.
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Post by vyrrk on Feb 14, 2018 13:56:50 GMT -8
This show cracked me up. Adam was a perfect host and fit the group really well!
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Feb 14, 2018 15:09:04 GMT -8
On a side note, I think that having boundaries or opinions about themes does NOT make someone a SJW - which is/can be every bit as offensive as calling people neckbeard. BTW, I agree wholeheartedly but occasionally this stuff creeps into conversation mode. I've used "neckbeard", and I've also regretted using it. Even the way I use "SJW" here is with a sarcastic sneer that's half asking for you to talk shit about it. I could probably be "accused" of being one in some circles. I definitely have friends that don't shy away with being labeled as such and wear the label proudly. And of course I get how you can make fun of it (just saw a meme this morning) in the same way as anything you want to simplify and denigrate. Anyways, mainly I regret using the term, because it's loaded, and much like talking religion or politics. Thanks for calling it out. On a separate but similar note, a friend designer created a game (Forget-Me-Not: Murder Hobo) and has "thread" (theme) cards of which one is "Social Justice Warrior". I got him to also create and include one called "Status Quo Warrior" to ensure a balanced amount of making fun of the ends of that spectrum. If you're gonna shit on people, at least shit on everyone equally.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 15:40:18 GMT -8
Tomes, I would totally play a Status Quo Warrior. Actually, it reminds me of something I'd seen, possibly in Dragon or in the Planescape book when it originally came out, about playing a modron. Given that they're like Absolute Law, you roll your initiative for your character at character creation. THAT is permanently the roll you use for the life of your character.
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Post by joecrak on Feb 14, 2018 19:16:47 GMT -8
Wait...being called someone that fights for social justice is an insult? I think people are really missing the mark with their insults these days.
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mrcj
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 173
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Post by mrcj on Feb 15, 2018 11:57:06 GMT -8
Thanks for bringing in Adam, that was a fun episode.
The social contract does not have to be extensive, contain any particular elements, but at the very least having the discussion does help expectations.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Feb 15, 2018 16:04:20 GMT -8
Only about :15 in but I can see why this one ran 3.5 hrs. gina is such a vibrant, eloquent force to be reckoned with on the cast and Adam is absolutely a joy! Keep it up crew! Lovin’ it.
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Post by Stu Venable on Feb 15, 2018 18:10:08 GMT -8
It really was a lot of fun to record that episode and it was a great cast.
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Post by joecrak on Feb 15, 2018 20:49:18 GMT -8
So, we totally need an episode with Adam, Tappy, Stu, and gina
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hoobuk
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 80
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, D&D 5E, Savage Worlds, WoD20, Cortex+
Currently Playing: Vampire Dark Ages 20th Anniversary, D&D 5E, Pathfinder
Currently Running: Monster of the Week
Favorite Species of Monkey: Capucin
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Post by hoobuk on Feb 16, 2018 8:31:30 GMT -8
Re:SJW... This is one of those terms like "Liberal." Some all apply it to me as am insult, but I take it as a compliment. As joecrak says, how is it insulting to fight for justice?! Although I do usually correct people and tell them I'm actually a SJC - Social Justice Cleric. I got divine weapons, dude.
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