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Post by jazzisblues on Jun 10, 2012 10:03:47 GMT -8
Ok, it appears my mouth was talking without discussing it with my brain. I checked my character sheet from the Dungeon World game and DW is a 2d6 game with other dice for damage. My apologies for misspeaking.
JiB
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Jun 10, 2012 17:11:56 GMT -8
LOL. Much like you and Tappy, I started yelling "No no no!" when I heard you say Dungeon World uses multiple dice based on skill, JiB. Unfortunately I was on the bus at the time and got weird looks from all the other passengers. Dungeon World and Monsterhearts (which ironnikki started a thread about here) are both based off Apocalypse World which uses 2d6 + stat for task resolution. As JiB noted, it's very narrative with a lot of stuff being made up on the fly by both players and the DM. Dungeon World *is* a little bit different from the other two games in that you roll dice for damage based on your class, rather than just doing a set amount based on the weapon used. I dunno if he'll read this since he said he visits the forums infrequently, but I had something for Kurt (the guy looking for advice on how not to TPK his PCs). You might have a hard time convincing your players to not just rush in and attempt to tear stuff limb from limb if you make them werewolves. I haven't played Werewolf, but I've read the nWoD Werewolf: the Forsaken book and played Vampire, and werewolf PCs are mega-super-killy. Tyler can back me up on this (or tell me I'm wrong), but in a straight up physical fight, you're going to need some incredibly powerful vampire antagonist to provide any kind of challenge for even low-level werewolf PCs. I'm not saying that you should change your game idea mind you. But allowing the PCs to be 9' tall furry death machines and then telling them "I want you to think about the problems and not simply rush headlong into combat." seems rather counterintuitive to me. Especially since it's relatively hard to put down a werewolf. If you don't want your players thinking their PC's are invincible, giving them characters that can shrug off massive amounts of damage thanks to regeneration isn't really going to do that. If you want to have your PCs fighting vampires, you're going to have to really beef up the vampire antagonists. There are probably supplements and splat books out there by WhiteWolf that allow you to do this. Or have the vampires be incredibly smart. Your world is different of course, but when I played Vampire, I got the sense that vampires know *exactly* how deadly werewolves are and will avoid direct confrontation with them at all costs. They'd probably never allow themselves to be caught in combat with one (unless by accident) and would devise all kinds of feints and traps to deal with the werewolves instead. One way to make things difficult and possibly discourage constant combat is to force them to keep their werewolf nature a secret, even to their own side. Have the PCs be an elite combat unit and only a few high ups in the military chain know about their true nature (probably because those commanders are werewolves themselves). To avoid exposing the supernatural world to humans, the PCs are expressly forbidden from revealing their werewolf nature to anyone, regardless of which side they are on. Maybe have this be the one thing the werewolves and vampires are in total agreement over; the supernatural world must remain hidden from mortals at all costs. Just something to think about.
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Post by Hammers and Nails on Jun 11, 2012 12:58:24 GMT -8
Whenever a GM says, "I am trying to run an X style game, but my players keep trying to play it like Y", my immediate thought is, "Well, then you aren't running a game that your players want to actually play in!"
Either find players that want to run that style of game or adjust the game to what your players want. To use Jib's analogy, your players have hammers and they want you to put nails in front of them.
If you want to change it up, I would suggest talking with your players about it first before expecting them to adjust on the fly. Old (gaming) habits die hard.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2012 13:00:13 GMT -8
The above was written by me, btw... didn't realize I wasn't logged in... DERRRRRR!!!!
Thickhead
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Post by jazzisblues on Jun 11, 2012 18:55:13 GMT -8
Whenever a GM says, "I am trying to run an X style game, but my players keep trying to play it like Y", my immediate thought is, "Well, then you aren't running a game that your players want to actually play in!" Either find players that want to run that style of game or adjust the game to what your players want. To use Jib's analogy, your players have hammers and they want you to put nails in front of them. If you want to change it up, I would suggest talking with your players about it first before expecting them to adjust on the fly. Old (gaming) habits die hard. This is exactly why I try to write the game for the players/characters rather than write a game and then find players/characters to fit it. Cheers, JiB
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Jun 11, 2012 22:24:51 GMT -8
My group of gamers is actually pretty good, in that we'll all play just about anything. When we have the time to, which is more and more infrequently unfortunately. I hate real life. Anyway, the three of us have different DMing styles and enjoy running different kinds of games. I'm the sandbox/relationship guy, another is the set piece/epic fantasy guy, and the third is kind of in the middle, but loves genre stuff. As I said, the three of us will play in any game that the others run. When we've opened it up to other friends (which we are always trying to do) we've used both approaches. I tend to use the "here is what the game is about" to see if other people would be interested in playing. My friend uses the "fit the game to the players" mentality. Both have their place, I think.
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Post by whutaguy on Jun 12, 2012 4:29:46 GMT -8
I also scream at my phone while listening to the podcast. Then a few minutes later one of you geniuses hear my cries from the future and express my opinion. I even forgive the fact that you claim it as your own opinion.
As for training players, Ceaser Milans techniques work pretty well. Just use cheetos instead of dog treats.
And who is going to GenCon? I will be there.
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Benji
Journeyman Douchebag
Alea iacta est
Posts: 176
Preferred Game Systems: Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, V20, D&D 3.5, Castles & Crusades, Monsters & Other Childish Things, Little Fears, TFOS
Currently Playing: Not a damn thing
Currently Running: Pathfinder, Savage Worlds
Favorite Species of Monkey: Cebuella pygmaea
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Post by Benji on Jun 12, 2012 9:25:21 GMT -8
Don't be surprised if I'm wearing a shirt at the next con that simply says "The people of Greyhawk thank you for your service".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2012 12:18:41 GMT -8
In my games I tend to design a metaplot that is ongoing in the world regardless of player actions first, and then let the players run wild in the world with a few hints of whats out there at the start. If they go after the big plot hook cool, if not I flow with what they do and watch for them to intersect the metaplot again to drop more hooks and see what happens. It gives them freedom to play as they like and tell their stories, meanwhile they get to see my story weaving around theirs and it gives the world alot of life.
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Post by Stu Venable on Jun 12, 2012 12:52:02 GMT -8
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Jun 12, 2012 22:14:47 GMT -8
In my games I tend to design a metaplot that is ongoing in the world regardless of player actions first, and then let the players run wild in the world with a few hints of whats out there at the start. If they go after the big plot hook cool, if not I flow with what they do and watch for them to intersect the metaplot again to drop more hooks and see what happens. It gives them freedom to play as they like and tell their stories, meanwhile they get to see my story weaving around theirs and it gives the world alot of life. That's my style too. I like a big epic game but level 1 is not the place for epic epicness. But the world still turns and I keep time. At the low levels, players discover something while doing the heavy lifting to level up that will only makes sense to them at mid level rumours (and only make sense to them). They can do whatever they wish with the only restriction to (at least) passively play and not actively break the game/world engrossment for everyone like a douche. This restriction from hard earned experience. I am too old to like hipsters. So, from the beginning, I write a storyline to over arch the players individual stories like a theme. The players suggest where they want to play their characters in /my/ homespun world (where player and character knowledge can basically be the same thing). I tell them the theme (i.e. Politics in region X), set them down on the map and emjoy watching them play their game/individual stories.
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joegun
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 249
Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds
Currently Playing: Just GM'ing right now.
Currently Running: Rippers Resurrected, and Savage RIFTS!
Favorite Species of Monkey: Baboon
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Post by joegun on Jun 15, 2012 11:47:58 GMT -8
So my wife came home from the gym last night, and while we were talking in the kitchen, she lifted up her arm, sniffed at her armpit and said "Damn I stink!" "The people of Greyhawk thank you for your service" was my reply! She just shook her head and left the room. However my son and I traded a smile
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Post by Stu Venable on Jun 15, 2012 12:21:01 GMT -8
"The People of Greyhawk thank you for your service" was the catchphrase of the night at Boggard rehearsal last night.
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Post by HourEleven on Jun 16, 2012 10:30:42 GMT -8
. If you want to have your PCs fighting vampires, you're going to have to really beef up the vampire antagonists. There are probably supplements and splat books out there by WhiteWolf that allow you to do this. Or have the vampires be incredibly smart. Your world is different of course, but when I played Vampire, I got the sense that vampires know *exactly* how deadly werewolves are and will avoid direct confrontation with them at all costs. They'd probably never allow themselves to be caught in combat with one (unless by accident) and would devise all kinds of feints and traps to deal with the werewolves instead. I think the key to Werewolf PCs vs. Vamp antagonists is that vampires (at least powerful ones) wouldn't risk open combat. They are much too old and wise to want to get ripped limb from limb. They fight dirty. They would have their retainers attack the werewolves' loved ones. They would manipulate the werewolves into situations where they have to kill innocents, or where they will be publicly outted as weres. To fight an old vampire isn't battling a single supernatural being, it's attacking a well funded and decades old secret evil empire - one with even scarier things that owe it favors... I feel like a werewolf vs. vampire campaign is a terrifying one, where the PCs could destroy anything they could touch, but they feel like they are fighting shadows.
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