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Post by jazzisblues on Jul 5, 2012 11:24:09 GMT -8
On the subject of piracy.
Axiom 1: You can't stop people from illegally reproducing your work. Save yourself the heartache and don't try.
To minimize the impact of axiom 1 make it legal and easy and not terribly expensive to obtain them legally.
It won't stop everyone, but you weren't going to stop some of them no matter what you do. If you only put out the print copy, some enterprising person will buy two tear one apart and feed it to their scanner to make their own pdf copy and then having put forth that effort they'll make it available if for no other reason than to say fuck you to the publisher who didn't make it available in the first place.
Just my 2 krupplenicks worth, your mileage may of course vary.
JiB
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Jul 5, 2012 12:28:50 GMT -8
The saying we used to apply, maybe out of date: Show the wolf your throat.
A peaceable word is better than an ultimatum in negotiations, even in parley with pirates I imagine.
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Post by daeglan on Jul 7, 2012 8:11:43 GMT -8
If you don't treat your customers like criminals many will not act like them. Not to mention in many ways treating everyone like they are going to pirate your stuff means you cause many people who attempt to buy your stuff difficulties in using the stuff they bought from you. I know many people who have had digital copies of things tied to a single machine that they no longer have access to because it is tied to an old dead machine.
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Post by ayslyn on Jul 7, 2012 8:57:40 GMT -8
It's not just the pulling of the PDF's it's WOTC's whole attitude towards its market. People love to demonize them, but it's not just WotC. Every game company does this. How much support is GURPS 1e getting now-a-days? WotC is putting some of that back catalogue back into print. Probably because White Wolf proved that it would work with their OWoD reprints.
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Post by Kainguru on Jul 7, 2012 10:11:05 GMT -8
It's not just the pulling of the PDF's it's WOTC's whole attitude towards its market. People love to demonize them, but it's not just WotC. Every game company does this. That doesn't make it right . . . WOTC is /was a market leader, perhaps their example is why a lot of companies do this (I'd hesitate to use the qualifier 'all' in this example because I do believe that somewhere out there there are companies that aren't following the herd) WOTC are one of the biggest, so they're the target of opportunity that most often presents itself - especially when it acts like a dick . . . WotC is putting some of that back catalogue back into print. Probably because White Wolf proved that it would work with their OWoD reprints. A few core books, not really the stuff most established gamers are properly interested in . . . not many people are aware that they also own the rights to Gary Gygax and David Newton's take on a generic roleplaying system - Dangerous Journey's (GDW). It was a skill based system and had a heka/mana based magic for the Mythus fantasy option. Long history behind it . . . and an example of how vindictive a certain former TSR CEO could be . . . the same CEO that thought 'Dragon Dice' would be a market killer. The first edition re-release is fantastic . . . BUT read the fine print - it's a limited edition specifically to raise funds for the GG Memorial in Lake Geneva. Of course I'm going to buy a set . . . if I can!!!. The 3.5 re-release I feel is simply a vague attempt to appeal to the nostalgia of many Pathfinder players. No 2e re-release yet? and like I have mentioned previously they have a fuck tonne of the old SPI back-catalogue. The SPI stuff is exactly the sort of thing parent company Hasbro would feel more comfortable with, given that Hasbro has also gobbled up Parker Brothers. SPI was my gate-way drug into AD&D . . . SPI games were for people that found monopoly and mouse trap interesting but, well . . . a bit samey after two or three games . . . but weren't ready for the full on tactical combat of the world of miniatures. Then there is Dragon Quest . . . I don't know how popular the Chronicles of the Raven by James Barclay are outside of the UK but I'd certainly recommend them to any gamer . . . Basically James Barclay has, by his own admission, cannibalized his experiences playing DragonQuest in the 1980's. Why did the rights holders of this system not capitalize on the interest generated by the novels??? (and I follow James blog infrequently enough to know that there have been serious discussions about putting The Raven Chronicles either on the big screen or the small one in the living room corner).
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Post by daeglan on Jul 7, 2012 21:59:00 GMT -8
It's not just the pulling of the PDF's it's WOTC's whole attitude towards its market. People love to demonize them, but it's not just WotC. Every game company does this. How much support is GURPS 1e getting now-a-days? WotC is putting some of that back catalogue back into print. Probably because White Wolf proved that it would work with their OWoD reprints. GURPS has put out most of their first ed GURPS BOOKS out in PDF.
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Post by ayslyn on Jul 8, 2012 22:24:20 GMT -8
And your dislike of it doesn't make it wrong. It is what it is. People love to demonize them, but it's not just WotC. Every game company does this. How much support is GURPS 1e getting now-a-days? WotC is putting some of that back catalogue back into print. Probably because White Wolf proved that it would work with their OWoD reprints. GURPS has put out most of their first ed GURPS BOOKS out in PDF. And so did WotC. Until they got burned. Did they over react? IMO, yes. Was it a bad decision? Again, IMO, yes. But, they have every right to do that.
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Post by daeglan on Jul 9, 2012 0:24:06 GMT -8
And your dislike of it doesn't make it wrong. It is what it is. GURPS has put out most of their first ed GURPS BOOKS out in PDF. And so did WotC. Until they got burned. Did they over react? IMO, yes. Was it a bad decision? Again, IMO, yes. But, they have every right to do that. [/quote] If they would have pulled their head out of their ass they would have figured out D&D has been floating around on the internet for a long time. Not selling the PDFs does not stop them from circulating. It just means they make no profit from them.
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Post by Kainguru on Jul 9, 2012 0:42:19 GMT -8
But, they have every right to do that. And we have every right to criticise them for it. Any hobby or industry is a joint effort between producer and consumer - both parties have a stake in how any business is run. I don't know about the US but in Oz and the UK consumers have statutory rights to protect part of this relationship. WOTC didn't create the RPG hobby, a bunch of gamers did . . . They bought a trademark and developed it but the hobby belongs to us. Remember you cannot copyright rules systems . . . The numerous OSR with free PDF's prove that and if WOTC is uncomfortable with OD&D and AD&D retro clones it's their own fault and they were told often enough on forums lie this and their own that there was a demand and they ignored it. TSR ignored gamers to its own detriment, a certain CEO's contempt of games helped lead TSR to eventual bankruptcy . . . And there were people then that refused to criticise TSR as if it were some sacred cow. I'm sorry but Buck Rogers!!! TSR seriously thought that that licence could save it . . . I'm old enough to remember the TV reboot and I was old enough at the time of TSR's Buck Rogers push to know that it was a) too long after the fact b) totally irrelevant to a new audience and c) Buck Roger's in the 25th Century had been crap that's why the series was axed . . . TSR failed to listen and too many people failed to be vocal enough and TSR died. TSR is dead and long forgotten, it's not like WOTC/Hasbro are the lich like animated skeleton of TSR shambling on . . . TSR disappeared under a mound of useless 'Dragon Dice' because, like Hasbro/WOTC, it assumed that it's fanperson base would buy any old shit and it'd be enough. What TSR discovered was that most fanpersons had got older, wiser, had other commitments in life, didn't want a new 'thing' just support for what they had and, most importantly, had discovered other game systems and company's. End result was no money in TSR coffers . . . And that's a valuable lesson in poor management. Possibly my attitude towards the like of WOTC is informed by living in the UK. We don't hold corporations or business entities is such high esteem, more cautious suspicion who should be questioned at every turn because if we don't keep them honest who will? The UK has only had in the last few decades privatised rail, buses and energy etc . . . Rather than the fruits of competition and private enterprise increasing efficiency and driving down the cost we've had complacency, incompetence, corruption and extortionate price increases. I bought into this hobby in 1980, long before WOTC was a viable entity. I bought the core books for D&D 3.0 when WOTC was a company in its own right run by and for gamers. The Hasbro WOTC is a very different creature . . . It's a name, a trademark that's all. Piazo and their small, but growing success have proved what can be done when you treat gamers as allies, Troll Lords a company of gamers maybe small but they're viable and produce good quality products . . . Who has really inherited TSR's crown? If you want D&D to be viable and have a future then call WOTC on what they've done. Everyone seems to agree that what WOTC did was a dick move . . . And a bad business one as well. Don't let it pass because it's WOTC . . . Point at the elephant in the corner of the room and scream 'look its there right there in front of you, you silly fuckers' . . . Because if WOTC is half the business it is supposed to be then someone at WOTC HQ will be aware of the discussion occurring on this board and in other corners of the Internet.
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Post by daeglan on Jul 9, 2012 1:07:31 GMT -8
On the subject of piracy. Axiom 1: You can't stop people from illegally reproducing your work. Save yourself the heartache and don't try. To minimize the impact of axiom 1 make it legal and easy and not terribly expensive to obtain them legally. It won't stop everyone, but you weren't going to stop some of them no matter what you do. If you only put out the print copy, some enterprising person will buy two tear one apart and feed it to their scanner to make their own pdf copy and then having put forth that effort they'll make it available if for no other reason than to say fuck you to the publisher who didn't make it available in the first place. Just my 2 krupplenicks worth, your mileage may of course vary. JiB Axiom 2 You are competing with free. Behave accordingly. People will pay more than free for a better product. DRM makes your product inferior to the free ones.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Jul 9, 2012 1:11:35 GMT -8
Note to Internet: everything is I.M.H.O. even when not so Humble.
Note to self: never write something I do not believe in for some reason when I am writing.
Note to readers: The Internet is an anonymous platform for everyone, even you.
Note to the rhetorically observant: when someone writes, to be honest with you, you have to wonder if all the other times the writer is not being honest.
My Composition 101 teacher did not waste his time with me....
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Post by ayslyn on Jul 9, 2012 17:26:34 GMT -8
I don't know about the US but in Oz and the UK consumers have statutory rights to protect part of this relationship. And none of those rights include forcing a company to continue to produce a product that they don't want to support any longer. Do you rail against companies not producing audio cassettes any longer, or VHS tapes? Blizzard is evil for not producing a 5.5" floppy edition of WoW, right? Planned Obsolescence. It's what allows companies to survive.
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Post by kaitoujuliet on Jul 9, 2012 17:32:51 GMT -8
Everyone seems to agree that what WOTC did was a dick move . . . I don't actually see it as a "dick move" (almost typed "dick movie, but that's something totally different!). I see it as a counterproductive overreaction based on a misplaced sense of self-preservation.
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Post by Kainguru on Jul 9, 2012 22:16:27 GMT -8
I don't know about the US but in Oz and the UK consumers have statutory rights to protect part of this relationship. Planned Obsolescence. It's what allows companies to survive. And Govts have been forced to move in and stop such practices in the past . . . The car industry in the 1970's in the US when it's motor vehicles were of such poor quality there was a consumer backlash. Plus none of these company's are ma and pa closed shops . . . They all have shareholders that the executive are accountable to . . . If we were all shareholders would it be right to ask us to stop bitching about WOTC's perceived bad business practice? For any of us knows any number of the members of this board could be shareholders and have very real stake in the performance of Hasbro/WOTC. The point I'm making is that just because it's a company with an IP doesn't mean we cannot and should not complain or criticise. Perhaps more should have been said about the banks prior to economic collapse because looking back there were people who saw it coming and said so many many times but they were marginalised in the press or not printed at all . . . Bit late now though . . .
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Jul 10, 2012 2:06:35 GMT -8
The point I'm making is that just because it's a company with an IP doesn't mean we cannot and should not complain or criticise. Perhaps more should have been said about the banks prior to economic collapse because looking back there were people who saw it coming and said so many many times but they were marginalised in the press or not printed at all . . . Bit late now though . . . I had a devil of a time explaining this, this raison d'etre of professional public relations practice, to potential clients like WotC. Even my trade only gives it lip service. No one wants to listen. And few want to upset the apple cart or rock the boat. (It is not a given that investors today know the business they invest in.) I have met a few of these mavericks and I can sense their authenticity of character in their presence. It's like meeting an angel on the road, or Kevin from Sin City. But most are people with whom I do not want to associate myself or my talent or my children. They are about apathy, inertia and politics. They call a song we dance that Warren Zevon or Frank Zappa could have done justice.
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