HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Jul 1, 2012 23:43:55 GMT -8
I ran a one shot Hollow Earth Expedition game at the monthly board gaming meet up yesterday and just thought I'd share the experience as well as explain why I like the Ubiquity system more than Savage Worlds. Especially since someone on Twitter didn't like my snarky suggestion of "Play something different." when Stu read the email asking how to differentiate your Savage Worlds characters in Season 8 Episode 3. Nor did the person like my response of "Bagging on Savage Worlds is just what I do." So here it is, all laid out for people.
Ubiquity characters have Flaws just like Savage World characters have Hinderances. Ubiquity just has more of them for the player to choose from (allowing for more variation), and they work a little differently. Instead of giving you extra points to use during the character creation process, each Flaw has a short description of actions you can take or situations you can get involved in to earn Style Points. Style Points are pretty much exactly like Bennies; you can spend them to add extra dice to your roll, to boost a Talent, or to "soak" damage.
There were a few episodes during the middle of Season 7 where the discussion was about the GM forgetting to hand out Bennies or being biased towards/against certain players. This is the reason that I love Ubiquity and it's Style Points; because the Flaw tells the player exactly what they need to do to earn those Style Points. I, the GM, don't have to remember all the Flaws of all the characters at my table because the system puts the onus onto the players and in very clear, non-gamer language.
In the first HEX con game I ran two years ago, the party washed up onto an island after having their boat sunk by sea serpent dinosaurs. Everyone steps out of the boat except the psychic anthropologist. The woman playing her puts on her best fake South American accent (the character was from Mexico) and declares "No! This island is cursed! If we step onto this cursed soil, we will all die! No!" Her character refused to leave the boat, and eventually had to be carried by another PC. Her character's Flaw? Superstitious.
This past spring when the scenario involved a T-Rex bursting out of the jungle and charging the party, the guy playing the female reporter rushed forward winding his camera yelling "Don't shoot! I need an action shot for the paper back home!" Later on (in the most recent session) when the Atlantean priest offered to use the strange healing crystal on the party, the guy playing her declined healing despite her being in bad shape from that T-Rex attack. "It's not that bad. I'm really OK. Really. I don't need help." His Flaw? Overconfident.
And this last session, the guy playing the Indiana Jones type leader character had the whole party follow some Atlantean palace servant down a pitch black secret tunnel without asking any questions or checking it out first. "Of course this is the way we go! Why would you ask such a question?" His Flaw? Implusive.
In each case, the player would look over at me and stretch out their hand for a Style Point. With no prompting whatsoever. And these were brand new players who had never tried the system before. This is why I like Ubiquity. Because instead of the GM being expected to make a subjective judgement call about whether the character was acting superstitious, overconfident, or impulsive, etc. the rules lay out guidelines for the player to follow. Each Flaw says "When you do X, you earn a Style Point." It's still objective, but it's a lot easier when the player can simply say "I just did/said X, which I think qualifies for my Flaw. Can I have a Style Point?" It's one less think I have to keep track of when GMing.
Also, Ubiquity has more Talents, more Flaws, more Skills, and more Stats than Savage Worlds making it easier to make your characters feel mechanically different. Plus, the dice mechanics are arguable even faster and easier than Savage Worlds, making it dead easy to teach. I just don't think that Exile Games has done as good a job marketing their product as Pinnacle Entertainment has done, and there isn't a stand-alone Ubiquity core book. Only a $30 hardback book that comes with a 1930's pulp setting.
I'll end my sales pitch now, as I'm sure you're sick of listening to me. If I ever get over to Southern California for a HJ's con, I'm going to run as many slots as I can of Hollow Earth Expedition and convert you all. Yes, even JiB. Ah ha ha ha haaaaa!
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Post by jazzisblues on Jul 3, 2012 6:50:41 GMT -8
Sounds like an awesome set of games Hyve, but then I suspect based on the conversations we've had that any game you ran would be awesome regardless of system. When you get here to a con and you run a game, you can just reserve a slot for me because I will be there.
I don't need to go into what I like about SW I've sung that tune often enough in the past. Like every game system it has its flaws what I have found over the years though is that regardless of game system it's the players that make the magic happen, and the same is true of SW. Still, for me it's a fast easy to work with game system that just keeps working for our purposes.
I look forward to playing Ubiquity when you get the chance to run it for us.
Cheers,
JiB
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Jul 3, 2012 17:05:20 GMT -8
Sounds like an awesome set of games Hyve, but then I suspect based on the conversations we've had that any game you ran would be awesome regardless of system. You might be surprised there, JiB. I've had my fair share of bombs and misfires even recently. If I can get my act together, I'll be more than willing to run an Ubiquity over Skype or G+. Hmm...
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Post by kaitoujuliet on Jul 3, 2012 19:21:32 GMT -8
I've played Ubiquity (HEX) and had a blast.
I haven't played Savage Worlds (yet). But I have to say that whenever I hear people singing the praises of SW bennies, I get a sort of sinking feeling in my stomach. The good stuff I hear always seems to be along the lines of "It feels so awesome to have the GM reward me when I do good roleplaying!"--and I always find myself thinking, "I don't want to feel that kind of pressure to knock people's socks off with RP." I'd rather just relax and let it flow. If something happens to come out that cracks up the whole table or has them sitting on the edge of their seats, then their reactions and my own sense of satisfaction are enough of a reward.
I mean, even when I played that HEX game, it was at a con and we all knew that there would be prizes given away at the session to whoever the MVP turned out to be. And I did find myself at one point feeling some stress and despair because I couldn't see a reason for my character to be doing much in the current situation, and yet I knew that I was losing any chance at the prize because of it. So I spent my time worrying that I was falling behind instead of relaxing and enjoying the game. SW sounds like every minute of every session would be like that. No awesomeness means no reward for you, so you'd better think of something sufficiently awesome to impress the GM. Measure up to the mark or be left behind. I'm just not good socially with that kind of expectation. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in my group who feels that way.
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Post by jazzisblues on Jul 4, 2012 9:53:15 GMT -8
Sounds like an awesome set of games Hyve, but then I suspect based on the conversations we've had that any game you ran would be awesome regardless of system. You might be surprised there, JiB. I've had my fair share of bombs and misfires even recently. If I can get my act together, I'll be more than willing to run an Ubiquity over Skype or G+. Hmm... Haven't we all Hyve. I've had some groaners and any number of games that fell flat on their arses. You run it, I'll play. Cheers, JiB
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Post by Twilight Struggler on Jul 4, 2012 15:11:50 GMT -8
The Ubiquity system didn't impress me when I read thru HEX. Then I bought Leagues of Adventure by Triple Ace Games a few weeks ago. Now, I love the system. Weird, huh? I think it's because WWII settings do not hold any interest for me as an RPG. WWII should be played as a wargame, IMO. Anyway, League's setting is "Steampunk Victorian" which I'm particularly fond of playing in. I feel that the Victorian era has more adventure and style. The only thing missing in the book is a cowboy archetype.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Jul 4, 2012 19:15:48 GMT -8
The Ubiquity system didn't impress me when I read thru HEX. Then I bought Leagues of Adventure by Triple Ace Games a few weeks ago. Now, I love the system. Weird, huh? I think it's because WWII settings do not hold any interest for me as an RPG. WWII should be played as a wargame, IMO. Anyway, League's setting is "Steampunk Victorian" which I'm particularly fond of playing in. I feel that the Victorian era has more adventure and style. The only thing missing in the book is a cowboy archetype. Hey twilightstruggler, glad to hear you gave Ubiquity a second chance. It's weird how different people can interpret the same thing differently though, isn't it? I never felt that HEX was a WWII RPG at all. I mean, the default setting is the 1930's and the first couple chapters of the book were sort of a brief run down of what was going on in the world at the time and what life in the 1930's was like. I feel that HEX is a war game the say way that Indiana Jones is a war movie; it's there in the background and it can affect people on occasion, but it's not really the focus of the story. Plus, the game's called Hollow Earth Expedition and has a drilling machine, some dinosaurs, and a psychic Amazon on the cover after all! I also picked up Leagues of Adventure, and was kind of disappointed. I like steampunk-esque Victorian era stuff too, but the book didn't wow me. Maybe it's because I'd already seen HEX and most of the stuff in the two books is identical. I've only briefly skimmed the book mind you, so I may love it on a second read. TAG's other Ubiquity setting, All For One: Reguime Diabolique, excited me much more. A Three Musketeers supernatural horror mash up? Yes please! ...I spent my time worrying that I was falling behind instead of relaxing and enjoying the game. SW sounds like every minute of every session would be like that. No awesomeness means no reward for you, so you'd better think of something sufficiently awesome to impress the GM. Measure up to the mark or be left behind. I'm just not good socially with that kind of expectation. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in my group who feels that way. Well, obviously you just don't get Bennies/Style Points because you're a woman. It says it right there in the Savage Worlds and Ubiquity books that the GM should only be giving Bennies/Style Points to men because women are socially conditioned to *not* be over the top. ;D You bring up a very good point kaitojuliet. Some players don't like to feel that kind of pressure. I occasionally avoid contests because I have that "you can't really lose if you don't compete" mentality sometimes. So I kind of get it. In all honestly though, I think most players pick Hinderances, Flaws, Disads, or other similar elements because they will be fun to play and not simply because they'll get extra points to make their PC extra bad ass. I mean, I've played with a guy who did that. He picked as many Hinderances as he could and then loaded the extra points into combat skills. He then played his highly flawed character no differently than anyone else. But he was an "I just want to roll dice and kill stuff" kind of player and would have played that way regardless of what system we were playing. Kimi brought this up during the whole Sexism vs. Bennies discussion, but I think RP rewards are great, especially for new players. When we played 4e with the aforementioned "roll dice and kill stuff" player, another player and I felt like we constantly had to provide him with positive reinforcement and encouragement. We were constantly saying things like "Good job.", "Nice idea.", or "Nice description on that attack." and it started to grate on us. We had to do it for the whole run of the 18 month campaign; he never made the effort to do anything other than simply roll dice. Would he have been more inclined to at least try to be more descriptive if there was a mechanical incentive for him? Maybe. Which brings me full circle to Savage Worlds and Ubiquity. Instead of just saying "You get Bennies when you RP your Hinderances" which is pretty vague especially for beginners, Ubiquity provides guidelines. The subjectivity is still there, but the GM has much more defined guidelines about when to hand out those Style Points, and players have a much better idea of what to do to earn those Style Points.
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Post by ironnikki on Jul 5, 2012 7:37:29 GMT -8
I've played Savage Worlds a few times, and found that I really enjoyed it. My main complaint was that even with Edges and Hindrances, characters that were designed to do similar things (i.e: the Face, the shooter, the wrench guy, etc) all felt kind of generically the same mechanically. I love the fact that the game is very easy to prep and play, and it's definitely fun, but I had, and still have, a lot of trouble getting over the fact that roleplay is often almost the only thing to separate two characters.
I've never played a game using the Ubiquity system, but it sounds interesting. Unfortunately, the fact that there is no "core book" containing the system without a setting really turns me off to it. I'm particularly interested in setting-independent systems. It can be a lot of work to strip system material that's based on the setting, or to replace it with other stuff.
In other words, I can't figure out a reason to modify another system to remove the setting, when I could just play Savage Worlds instead. If and when a core Ubiquity book hits the market, I will probably pick it up, and then blame my destitution on you, hyvemynd.
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Post by Twilight Struggler on Jul 5, 2012 18:42:26 GMT -8
I've never played a game using the Ubiquity system, but it sounds interesting. Unfortunately, the fact that there is no "core book" containing the system without a setting really turns me off to it. I'm particularly interested in setting-independent systems. It can be a lot of work to strip system material that's based on the setting, or to replace it with other stuff. In other words, I can't figure out a reason to modify another system to remove the setting, when I could just play Savage Worlds instead. If and when a core Ubiquity book hits the market, I will probably pick it up, and then blame my destitution on you, hyvemynd. Another thing that surprised me about Leagues of Adventures is that 80%, IMO, of the book is a copy-n-paste of the rules from HEX. Most of the difference are from the skill set and/or ruling. That make sense. Some skills are genre/era dependent. I think you can easily remove the setting from any Ubiquity-based books and make one of them a core book. But, I'd say, use HEX as the core since it's half modern and half a-long-time-ago. And the expansion books have rules for the supernatural. As for making a superhero setting.... Well, I think it could do it, but it won't be to my liking. I never got into Savage World's attempt at supers, and I think I'd be getting the same result with a Ubiquity supers game.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Jul 5, 2012 18:57:34 GMT -8
I've never played a game using the Ubiquity system, but it sounds interesting. Unfortunately, the fact that there is no "core book" containing the system without a setting really turns me off to it. I hear you ironnikki. I think that, coupled with the fact that Hollow Earth Expedition, All For One: Regime Diabolique, and Leagues of Adventure (the books that contain the core Ubiquity rules) all have price tags of around $29.99 for the hardback book mean that Savage Worlds will be the "go to" system for a while. And as much as I grumble about it, I gotta give Shane Hensley mad props for his business sense. A setting-less core rule book that's only $9.99 was genius. Exile Games really needs to put out a "just the rules" version of Ubiquity for around the same price to grow it's fan base. That being said, there is almost no setting to strip out of HEX, AFO:RD, or LoA. Or rather nothing to strip out that will affect the rules. Between those three books, the rules chapters are virtually identical (though AFO:RD does have a Magic chapter). Attributes, Skills, Talents, Motivations, and Flaws as well as how the game works is all the same from game to game. The only difference are the examples used to illustrate things, the sample characters, and "fluff" chapters. Though I fully understand not wanting to buy a book when you won't use half of it because it's the wrong setting. Exile Games is shooting itself in the foot by not making the rules available in a setting-less format.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Jul 5, 2012 20:09:21 GMT -8
Whoops. Looks like I got ninja-ed by twilightstruggler. That's what I get for taking so long to compose my response. Another thing that surprised me about Leagues of Adventures is that 80%, IMO, of the book is a copy-n-paste of the rules from HEX. I think this is why I was a little disappointed by LoA. Most of the book was the same (with only the examples being different) and since both LoA and HEX are essentially pulp, the tone of the book was the same too. They're both slightly fantastic, semi-historic settings, with LoA being the 1890's and HEX being the 1930's. I'm sure I'll piss off some historians or genre geeks by saying this, but the time periods didn't feel all that different to me. Compare that with AFO:RD which is set in a semi-fantastic 1620's France. Plus the game is swashbuckling horror, which has a very different feel from pulp action/adventure. You could do something resembling superpowers in Ubiquity. But as there aren't any "real" superpower rules, you've probably have to build them with the Weird Science or Psychic rules from HEX or the Magic rules from AFO:RD. Dunno how well they'd work though.
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Post by kaitoujuliet on Jul 9, 2012 17:44:24 GMT -8
You bring up a very good point kaitojuliet. Some players don't like to feel that kind of pressure. I occasionally avoid contests because I have that "you can't really lose if you don't compete" mentality sometimes. So I kind of get it. In all honestly though, I think most players pick Hinderances, Flaws, Disads, or other similar elements because they will be fun to play and not simply because they'll get extra points to make their PC extra bad ass. I think a lot depends on the social dynamics in the group. I sometimes feel like my group has an inner circle of ultra-experienced roleplayers and then the "outer circle" of comparative newbies which includes me (I only really started tabletop gaming in 2005). I don't think the inner circle means to intimidate newbies, but they do sometimes band together (unconsciously) as a team against opinions expressed by the newbies, and they also can have a very "been there, done that" attitude on occasion. I honestly kind of shudder at the thought of playing a game GM'd by one of this group and feeling like I had to come up with something that would impress them. However, I'm sure there are other groups that don't have that kind of issue, where the competition to impress each other is friendly and relaxed!
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Post by malifer on Jul 10, 2012 5:17:37 GMT -8
However, I'm sure there are other groups that don't have that kind of issue, where the competition to impress each other is friendly and relaxed! I like Fate Points and Bennies not only for there use in the game, but to really engage people. My group consists of mainly newer players whose first rpg was 4e, I am the only grognard. Some of them have taken to it like moths to a candle, others are Mr. Meek. To get a bennies I expect a lot more from my thespians than the Mr. Meek. Is this bias? yes. Am I stinging with my points? no. The pay off has been superb. The meek players from the 4e games who would essentially play chess while everyone else roleplayed are now shining a little brighter while none of them have taken the lead yet, but I believe is only a matter of time. Perhaps there is pressure to roleplay for the bennies, but there was no pressure in 4e and we all know how that can turn out.
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Post by malifer on Jul 10, 2012 5:50:50 GMT -8
Ubiquity characters have Flaws just like Savage World characters have Hinderances. Ubiquity just has more of them for the player to choose from (allowing for more variation), and they work a little differently. Umm...I only have the Hollow Earth Core book and I am not sure if you are counting other books, but Savage Worlds Deluxe has more Flaws than Hollow Earth. Hollow Earth - 33 SWD - 42 (I only counted ones that can be minor/major once, so it could be considered higher) Mostly they're just the same, or could be covered under a different named hindrance. The one thing you left out though is the Special Dice in Ubiquity, which is really the only thing I dislike in the book. Special Dice and Dice Pools are just aren't my thing and I find it adds more game-yness to a system. Which brings me full circle to Savage Worlds and Ubiquity. Instead of just saying "You get Bennies when you RP your Hinderances" which is pretty vague especially for beginners, Ubiquity provides guidelines. The subjectivity is still there, but the GM has much more defined guidelines about when to hand out those Style Points, and players have a much better idea of what to do to earn those Style Points. Let's be clear though some of those guidelines is bringing snacks to the game, another is keeping track of what's going on, or having the game at your house. All of these are hogwash. I'm all for being lenient with newer players, but that is coddling. The rest of the guidelines are the same as FATE or Savage Worlds. No one expects the players to get every nuance of any game right away. And how to get these points could easily be described by the GM. Love you Hyve, Mal
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
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Post by HyveMynd on Jul 10, 2012 18:07:19 GMT -8
*Grumble grumble* Malifer's right. Looks like I made a mistake. Savage Worlds Deluxe *does* have more Hinderances than the Hollow Earth Expedition core book has Flaws. Damn. So I decided to put this together to compare the two simply based on raw numbers. I only counted stuff that has some kind of mechanical effect on gameplay and not the purely role play stuff. Savage Worlds Deluxe: - 5 Traits;
- 4 Derived Traits;
- 23 Skills;
- 43 Hinderances; and
- Over 100 Edges (I kept losing count).
Hollow Earth Expedition: - 10 Motivations;
- 6 Primary Attributes;
- 8 Secondary Attributes;
- 30 Skills (each with 5 optional specializations);
- 70 Talents;
- 10 Resources; and
- 33 Flaws.
So as I said... I was wrong. Savage Worlds Deluxe does offer players more Edges and Hinderances than Hollow Earth Expedition does. I've measured game cocks and come up short. Which almost never happens, since I'm black. The one thing you left out though is the Special Dice in Ubiquity, which is really the only thing I dislike in the book. I'm not sure what you mean about "special dice" malifer. Yes, Exile Game Studio makes special Ubiquity Dice, but you don't need them to play. In fact you can use any dice to play Ubiquity, since in the mechanics each die has a 50/50 chance of success. You could stuck your hand into your dice bag, grab a handful of random dice, and just chuck them onto the table. As long as you're rolling the correct number of dice, you'll be fine. High/low or even/odd; it doesn't matter. I'm a completist so I made my own dice; blank white d6s with three green O's and three red X's for quick and easy reading. The special Ubiquity dice supposedly allow you to roll fewer dice. The have d1s, d2s, and d3s, which are the equivalent of rolling one, two, or three dice. Supposedly you can roll two d3s and get the same results as rolling six regular dice. I say supposedly because I haven't actually tried them yet. I want to though. I absolutely love dice pool systems. Love them. nWoD is my favorite game system of all time. Savage Worlds felt gamey to me, especially with the card-based initiative. This is just personal preference though. As Tappy would say, "Some people juggle geese." Let's be clear though some of those guidelines is bringing snacks to the game, another is keeping track of what's going on, or having the game at your house. All of these are hogwash. ... The rest of the guidelines are the same as FATE or Savage Worlds. Yes, the section on earning Style Points in Ubiquity is similar to many other games. But that's not really what I meant when I said that Ubiquity provides more concrete guidelines. I meant that each Motivation and Flaw in Ubiquity has a clause that tells the player what they can do to earn a Style Point, taking a lot of the bookkeeping off of the GM's shoulders. For example, lets compare the Yellow Hinderance in Savage Worlds to the Coward Flaw in Hollow Earth Expedition. Yellow (Major)Not everyone has ice water in their veins. Your hero is squeamish at the sight of blood and gore and terrified of oncoming harm. He subtracts 2 from all of his fear-based Spirit checks. Coward (Mental Flaw)Your character is afraid of conflict and won't stand up for herself. She will run from a fight, or surrender if unable to flee. You suffer a -2 penalty on all rolls when she is threatened with physical violence. You earn a Style Point if your character gives up without a fight or abandons her friends to save her own skin. Both provide great role playing opportunities and say a lot about a character with that Hinderance/Flaw. But it's the last line in the Coward Flaw I'm talking about. It says right there in the text "You earn a Style Point if you do X". I love that. I love that because I, the GM, don't have to make as much of a judgement call about whether a character's action deserves a Style Point or not. Both the players and the GM have guidelines and examples of what kind of actions should qualify for Style Points for that specific Motivation or Flaw. I also think it kind of levels the playing field a bit, so to speak. As kaitojuliet said, new players can be intimidated out of role playing when they feel as if they won't be able to match what the other, more experienced players are doing. I totally get that. I think explicitly saying "You get a Style Point when you do X." right there in the Flaw's description helps new players out more than telling them "You get a Bennie when you role play your Hinderances." It just gives new players a bit more to go on. A little extra nudge. That's why I like them. Plus, as I said before, Ubiquity Flaws don't give you extra character building points. I've seen that abused too often in the past to think it's a good idea now. I'm sick of seeing players loading up on Hinderances, Flaws, or Disads so they can build a Min/Maxed character and then only role playing those drawbacks when the GM specifically calls their attention to it. When you take a Flaw in Ubiquity (which is optional) you don't get to make your character better. What you get is a mechanically incentivized role playing tool that you can turn on or off at will. You don't have to role play your Flaw this time if you don't want to, but that means you won't get a Style Point. I feel like you've already gotten the reward in Savage Worlds with those extra character points, and the Bennie is just even more icing on that hugh slice of cake you got. Phew. As I said though, most of this is all personal preference. I don't actually hate Savage Worlds, I just think that Ubiquity is just as good, just as universal, just as quick to learn, can do everything that Savage Worlds does, and just wish it was getting more love than it currently is.
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