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Post by fray on Aug 3, 2012 21:22:55 GMT -8
For a RPG with your PC represented by a card deck try this... Untold www.untoldthegame.comI dig the setting and there are free downloadable materials. Please check it out.
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Post by whutaguy on Aug 4, 2012 12:45:48 GMT -8
While I haven't heard the prompting discussion yet, www.dragonstorm.com/ is also a card based RPG. I have not played it, nor read much of it, but like my forefathers, I find my truths to be self-evident.
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kroh
Supporter
Posts: 132
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Post by kroh on Aug 5, 2012 21:13:00 GMT -8
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Post by Kainguru on Aug 6, 2012 1:32:33 GMT -8
Earlier in the show you wanted to mix hammers with penis's typical Happy Jacks style (guess this is what happens when Tappy is absent): Welllll . . . there is a famous UK legal precedent that was set when several men were charged for assault because their hobby was: 'standing around table whilst taking turns nailing each others penis's to it with a hammer' A different twist on tabletop gaming . . .
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Post by kaitoujuliet on Aug 6, 2012 8:28:25 GMT -8
Hey, it was cool to hear the "system matters" discussion. What I found hilarious, though, is that you guys answered with a resounding yes ... but completely blew off as irrelevant the usual claim of people who say that system matters. What got me thinking about the topic lately was hearing one too many people say in a condescending tone, "Oh, (insert "traditional" RPG here) is a great game if all you want to do is kill things and take their stuff. But if you want any other kind of story, with serious roleplaying and relationships and characterization, you'd better use a different system designed for the purpose." I'm getting really fed up with the idea that so-called "traditional" games somehow hamper or inhibit roleplaying. If people say they do often enough, other people will start to believe it.
As far as I'm concerned, things like the deadliness of the system and possibility of exploding dice are just variations on a theme, nuances of flavor under the basic heading of adventure games. I think you can play just about any adventure storyline with just about any system that focuses on adventures, with enough work. I also think you can add just about any interpersonal subplot to any "traditional" adventure-game system if you don't mind freeforming a lot of it--and I don't think freeforming is a bad thing either. I do concede, however, that if you don't want your plotline to have any adventuring aspect, then a "traditional" game may not be the best choice of system.
And as for using D&D to play superheroes, isn't that what Mutants and Masterminds is? A version of D20 tweaked for the superhero genre?
P.S., to Tyler: I believe the state with "all the lakes and crap" is actually Minnesota--"Land of 10,000 Lakes," ya know? :-D
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Nolinquisitor
Journeyman Douchebag
Next Project: BrigadeCon, RPGS 2 Your Science Fantasy Toolkit Supersetting
Posts: 162
Preferred Game Systems: GURPS, M&M, 7th Sea, Cypher System
Currently Playing: Playing is for the weak.
Currently Running: Cypher System, D&D 5E + Freeport
Favorite Species of Monkey: Dr. Zaius
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Post by Nolinquisitor on Aug 6, 2012 9:03:26 GMT -8
A solid and valid argument kaitoujuliet. And maybe it is time to remind ourself that the generous folks at Happy Jacks cannot be accounted responsable for argument logic failure. In this podcast, beers are drank, things are debate, opinions are thrown out (often in the spur of the moment), all in the name of entertainment and good humor, and not as pragmatic vulcan solutions to solve the age-old rpg dilemnas. I think the intention is what matters most on this particular topic: "does system matters". I find this question to be an intellectual trap but if I can offer some consolation with a personal answer, here it is: of course system matters if it matters to you. For some peoples system do matters and can reinforce some desired effect in a game but sometimes it doesn't either. You can have mass combat in GURPS, d20, Tri-Stat, ORE, Fate, etc. Each will bare a different flavor... but in the end it doesn't really matters. Mass of peoples will get killed and one side will eventually win. System have mechanical influence on the game but you can achieve anything with any house rules or tweaks with any games. On the d20 superhero comment, I would add if I may that as a comic book artist and a superhero rpg affictionado, that not only Mutants & Masterminds is a d20 based roleplaying system but that it is as close as you can can to be the best goddamn superhero out there (for me). I've played them all, from Marvel Super Heroes Advanced Set up to GURPS Supers and HERO, and I've discovered that mechanically speaking you can do things in M&M that you may have a hard time to emulate with other game (i.e power stunt, pushing super abilities beyond defined parameters, fast combat, routinely trap all you pc's in a deathtrap, etc.). I think the hosts were more talking about mechanical influence over certain effects.
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Post by jazzisblues on Aug 6, 2012 10:26:22 GMT -8
As part of the discussion at hand here is where (I think) we ended up.
Does System Matter?
Short answer: Yes and no.
Longer more informed answer:
Any kind of game CAN be executed in any game system if you are willing to put forth the effort to wrangle the game system to do it. That said, game system informs decisions about games and play and how events are resolved. So in that context yes system matters. Some systems lend themselves to certain game types more readily than they do to others. Also, the nature of the participants gets involved. So there's also an element of no it doesn't matter.
For me personally what matters more about game systems is do I get the flavors of resolutions I want for the game we're trying to play and the story we're trying to craft?
Cheers,
JiB
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Post by Stu Venable on Aug 6, 2012 10:58:50 GMT -8
It's all about context
"Does system matter?" to me, is not the same question as "can I have fun role-playing in any system?"
If you're just looking for a fun time, sure, you can play just about anything, and with the right players, it will be fun.
Once you get into the minutia of role-playing: the sort of story you want the tell, the flavor, the PCs' world view, then system starts to matter quite a bit.
By the end of the discussion, we were deep into the nitty gritty of role-playing, so that question would have a different answer.
The RAW vs. house-ruled discussion, to me, is kind of nonsensical.
"All systems can be tweaked, house-ruled and twisted to do anything, so, no, system doesn't matter."
... but if you have to make huge tweaks to RAW, doesn't that mean it *does* matter?
Otherwise, just start with a blank piece of paper and house-rule as needed
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Post by kaitoujuliet on Aug 6, 2012 13:39:26 GMT -8
Happy Jacks cannot be accounted responsable for argument logic failure. Oh, I didn't mean to say they were illogical! I just found it amusing that they approached the question from such a radically different angle from that of most people. Once you get into the minutia of role-playing: the sort of story you want the tell, the flavor, the PCs' world view, then system starts to matter quite a bit. By the end of the discussion, we were deep into the nitty gritty of role-playing, so that question would have a different answer. So what would be your answer to the question now? At the risk of sounding like Bill Clinton, I'd say that depends on what you think "matter" means. In other words, which is a bigger deal--the fact that the system can be modified to get the effect you want, or the fact that the system has to be modified to get the effect you want? (I suspect the answer to that question depends on just how much modification is needed.)
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Post by Stu Venable on Aug 6, 2012 13:48:41 GMT -8
If I were to phrase a "complete" answer to the question, it would go something like this:
"If you're looking for a specific feel or flavor to the story told with your game, system matters. If you are not, then it doesn't."
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jfever
Journeyman Douchebag
FEVAH!!!!
Posts: 218
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Post by jfever on Aug 6, 2012 14:17:07 GMT -8
I think the key point brought up was the hammer analogy by Jib. That you may have a bunch of hammers, but there may only be one hammer out of the bunch that does the job best. Also, remember that a system is just a bunch of rules and mechanics when you boil it down. I contend that those rules and mechanics can most definitely affect the flavor and feel of the game as to make one system superior in it's flavor/style over another system, even if said system is a "universal" system. For Example: Dark Heresy vs Savage Worlds being used to duplicate Dark Heresy Dark Heresy is a gritty, dangerous, macabre system that has a lot of rules, tables, and various ways for your character to expire. You may have to make another character because of death, insanity, or corruption. So, not only are you trying to dodge bullets, but you are trying to not go crazy, or be swayed by the dark seduction of the warp. Because of the attack on your character's mind and soul exists, it influences how you talk to NPC's and make choices in the world as you are dealing with such high stakes. The dice mechanic also lends to the grittiness of the game. A starting character may, on average, have around a 30 percent chance of success on any said action. 30 percent!! From the get go your characters are a little fucked. Also, in combat, there are very specific rules for certain actions. Like cover fire. You can choose to spray bullets over a certain area, and any enemies in that area have to make a willpower roll or be forced to take cover. Also, the game is deadly. It is easy to not only die, but to die in gruesome ways. (see earlier seasons of Happy Jacks RPG podcast. Or pick up Dark Heresy. I'm not disappointed at all that I did.) These rules effect how you play the game immensely. Because the game is so deadly and crazy, the second guns come out I'm thinkin to myself "Ok. Where the fuck is cover???" I will also be far more cautious in the actions I take. It's the system that made me feel this way. Not the DM or the other players. If I tried to do Dark Heresy in Savage Worlds, the game would change entirely. My character would succeed more on actions, as your chances are WAY higher than in Dark Heresy. Also, as the system is meant to be fast and loose and casual like a french whore (It's Happy Jacks. Had to put something vulgar in there somewhere), I can come up with crazy actions on my own, and most likely succeed as the simple target number of 4 is easy to make. Yes, you can modify Savage Worlds, and do it pretty easily. You could make the damage more gritty, make people have to roll on the critical injury table more often, and other such things. The simple truth is that no matter how much you modify Savage Worlds, it will ALWAYS be Savage Worlds with a Dark Heresy mask on playing trick or treat. You will definitely feel different playing one game over the other. So, want to play a low combat, dark, gritty, investigation game? Call of Cthulu! Want to play a high combat, dark, gritty, investigation game? Dark Heresy! Want to play a certain style of game, but you can't seem to find a game that fits that style? GURPS or Savage Worlds! Yes one system might be simpler than the other, but simple doesn't equal maximum effectiveness. I know there are a lot of rules and mechanics things I missed in both systems, but if I covered all of them I'd be here all fuckin day. P.S. I'm glad the topics are making a return to the podcast. Also, I hope Tappy comes back soon, as I am craving some of the old school, season 1 and 2 stu, stork, tappy topic discussions. But it will be even better now as there are some equally awesome new hosts to add to the mix!
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jfever
Journeyman Douchebag
FEVAH!!!!
Posts: 218
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Post by jfever on Aug 6, 2012 17:21:57 GMT -8
Lestew (sp?)- I have run into the problem with my current group. I have almost left the group more than once because of player's lack of attendance. All of them knew I was serious, and started showing up more often. Except there is one guy in particular who doesn't show up all the time. He always has the same excuses, and he would be a douchebag and get mad at us for playing without him.
Our solution, which I think could help Lestew (sp?), was to have a separate game that we would play without him, and when he showed up we would play our regular game. This gets us faithful, punctual gamers to not lose out and not hear the other player's bitching, and it could also have a residual effect of making the other player jealous that we are gaming without him and he will show up on time.
hopefully that helps.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Aug 7, 2012 0:24:30 GMT -8
If I were to phrase a "complete" answer to the question, it would go something like this: "If you're looking for a specific feel or flavor to the story told with your game, system matters. If you are not, then it doesn't." False. And false due to your personal humility and modesty I suspect. People would play with you as their GM no matter what the system (so long as it is a genre/theme they enjoy) because of YOU, the GM. I make that argument HERE.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Aug 7, 2012 0:43:36 GMT -8
Lestew (sp?)- I have run into the problem with my current group. I have almost left the group more than once because of player's lack of attendance. All of them knew I was serious, and started showing up more often. Except there is one guy in particular who doesn't show up all the time. He always has the same excuses, and he would be a douchebag and get mad at us for playing without him. Our solution, which I think could help Lestew (sp?), was to have a separate game that we would play without him, and when he showed up we would play our regular game. This gets us faithful, punctual gamers to not lose out and not hear the other player's bitching, and it could also have a residual effect of making the other player jealous that we are gaming without him and he will show up on time. hopefully that helps. Here's another, better, solution tailored to the selfish and douche bag player: AD&D 1e DMG, Page 169: Solo adventures using random dungeon generation.
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Post by Kainguru on Aug 7, 2012 3:17:59 GMT -8
LOL . . . A few wet weekend afternoons as a 14yr old were spent on that page of the DMG . . .
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