|
Post by muntjack on Aug 13, 2012 5:08:18 GMT -8
I want to preface this by saying that I love my group of gaming friends since many of them are my lifelong friends. That being said, I had to ask your opinions on rolling dice.
This summer I was able to get in some gaming, and our crew has been playing White Wolf's Scion. For those that don't know anything about Scion, it's sort of a modern version of Exalted (the game Tappy used to talk about all the time). You play as the sons/daughters of Gods, so the power level is pretty damn high.
Since the power level is high, dice rolls can get a little ridiculous. Case in point, last night my character (sort of a fate controller) used a spell that ended up giving another character an extra 30 dice to their next action. So in essence the next action involved rolling around 60 dice.
The crazy dice rolling plus the high defense of just about everyone make me long for a good high level Pathfinder/4e combat. Now to that frustration add the way that some people in my group roll. Typically one of our group rolls the dice one at a time (often trying to cheat by knocking other dice over...but that's a whole other story). So last night we made him roll more at once.
Now, when I roll, I pick up the damn dice and drop them all at once. Apparently that's a no-no. The argument is that you have to roll 4-5 at a time to get optimal reaction from the dice, and if they are rolled that way, 3 out of 4 dice typically are successes.
Now, I'm no mathematician, but in a d10 system where 7-9 are one success, 10s are two successes, and 1s take one success away, shouldn't that statement be false?
The combat last night was so frustrating that it took the wind right out of the sails of the game. Anyone else have frustrating dice stories or just strange dice rituals?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 6:03:48 GMT -8
Now, when I roll, I pick up the damn dice and drop them all at once. Apparently that's a no-no. The argument is that you have to roll 4-5 at a time to get optimal reaction from the dice, and if they are rolled that way, 3 out of 4 dice typically are successes. Sigh. Whoever made that optimal reaction statement needs to be taken outside and beaten with a basic statistics primer. Rolling all the dice together vs in small groups makes no difference whatsoever to the result. With the number of dice being rolled in Scion I'd really recommend people roll all the dice at once just to speed things up. As for strange dice rituals I tend to avoid them mostly because as the regular GM I've got too much else to concentrate on without worrying if all my dice are displaying the same number etc.
|
|
|
Post by jazzisblues on Aug 13, 2012 6:23:12 GMT -8
First of I concur with muntjack. Now, if we want to get really detailed about it, the number of dice rolled at a time and the way the dice impact off of each other as they are rolled impacts what values are returned, but since the dice were not staged (set to particular faces before the roll) that fact in no way affects the result. In essence though the number of dice impacts which face of each die would appear, which face that is is in no way connected to the physics of the die roll so the two do not affect one another.
Also, [debunking myth #1] dice have no memory, and [debunking myth #2] your dice do not hate you (not even you Stork).
I only have two dice rolling rituals and they are more aesthetic in nature than superstitious,
1. I only use complete sets of dice. If a single die from a set is lost that set is retired. 2. When making a roll all of the dice involved in a single roll have to be the same color. eg. Rolling 3 attacks in a d20 game all of the dice for each attack are the same color example (attack 1 uses red dice, attack 2 uses blue dice and attack 3 uses yellow dice) Rolling attacks in GURPS or Hero all 3 dice have to be the same color, but if I am doing multiple rolls for example an attack and a hit location they will generally be two different colors of dice. In Savage Worlds, the wild die is a separate roll so I use a different color for that.
Cheers,
JiB
|
|
|
Post by Kainguru on Aug 13, 2012 8:26:50 GMT -8
Dice rolling rituals are just that 'rituals' . . . They have no influence on the outcome of any truly random number generator. Humans are absolutely lousy at random generation (numbers or otherwise) or recognising such because we are 'primed' for pattern recognition - neuroscientists speculate it is a product of our 'hardwiring' whilst cognitive scientists prefer a more process orientated explanation where it is intrinsic to the function of particular cognitive modules (analogous to a sub-routine in a computers software). Because we are primed to see patterns we see links where there may be none and presuppose a 'particular pattern' as being random. Rosencranz and Gilderstein are Dead (misspelt in all likelihood) explore this in an aside . . . One of them keeps flipping a coin with the same result every time . . . They discuss how we believe this is impossible when in fact it is only improbable given that each flip of the coin is a 50/50 chance as a unique event that neither influences the outcome of future events or is itself influenced by previous events (flips of the coin). Lotto tickets are a prime example . . . We select what we believe to be random when any combination is viable through chance. This pattern recognition is also further complicated by a risk bias . . . We perceive certain actions as more risky despite the math being converse ie: classic game show gamble with two contestants able to share a prize: they can either opt to share or steal (we're all familiar with the format I hope) . . . Instinctually we tend to perceive the sharing option as more risky and choose to steal when mathematically the share option is less risky . . . It's just they way we've evolved to process information and a facet of human nature that these shows exploit (if both parties steal then both lose and the show wins). My favourite insider joke/quote from Doctor Who "humans always seeing patterns when there are none . . . " As an addit the reason for 'rolling dice' would be to counter either of two cheat methods : the slap down and the deliberate drop ( dice number desired already primed in hand with the player hoping to drop the die onto that side without disruption). Both risky gambits but if you're a true munchkin any cheat is an advantage . . . So not so much a ritual for improving odds but rather a method of preventing cheating.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 16:05:53 GMT -8
This reminded me of something that I encountered in a web comic, and think of often. It fascinates me and cracks me up. FYI.. the commentary on the bottom is what I'm talking about, not the comic itself. www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0099.html
|
|
|
Post by Kainguru on Aug 13, 2012 16:23:04 GMT -8
This reminded me of something that I encountered in a web comic, and think of often. It fascinates me and cracks me up. FYI.. the commentary on the bottom is what I'm talking about, not the comic itself. www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0099.htmlLMAO - all that was missing was for Jar Jar's head to explode and it would have been perfect (especially if the bone shrapnel from said exploding head could have taken out that horribly precious childhood Anakin at the same time)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 16:31:39 GMT -8
I am another of those complete set dice rollers. Its a touch of OCD obviously, but I need my complete sets. I also use a different set for each game I play. When I GM D&D I have a lava colored set. For the Steampunk Savage Worlds game I've just started I have a Steampunk inspired set. When I play in my buddies D&D game I have a red speckled set and a green speckled set that I use so that I can switch d20s on occasion. Which I realize doesn't actually help, but the placebo effect makes me feel better.
|
|
azuretalon
Journeyman Douchebag
I poop violence!!!
Posts: 150
|
Post by azuretalon on Aug 13, 2012 16:38:02 GMT -8
I'm not sure who said 3 out of the 4 dice come up successes but that's just retarded by whoever it was. But those two do silly things like freeze their dice and keep them all on 10 when not in use.
Now I do prefer to roll 3-5 at a time, mostly because I feel that gives me more dice impacts. A giant lump and a single both just feel like they drop there and that's it. Might not matter but I feel better that the dice are getting a little more play before landing.
|
|
|
Post by Kainguru on Aug 13, 2012 16:52:46 GMT -8
I am another of those complete set dice rollers. Its a touch of OCD obviously, but I need my complete sets. I also use a different set for each game I play. When I GM D&D I have a lava colored set. For the Steampunk Savage Worlds game I've just started I have a Steampunk inspired set. When I play in my buddies D&D game I have a red speckled set and a green speckled set that I use so that I can switch d20s on occasion. Which I realize doesn't actually help, but the placebo effect makes me feel better. I have special coloured dice sets for one reason . . . So I know if one of those other cheap fuckers at the table are trying to steal my dice
|
|
|
Post by Forresst on Aug 13, 2012 16:58:58 GMT -8
my only big ritual involving dice is this: i use the orange dice if it's light out when I start gaming, and the green ones if it's dark out when I start gaming. I dunno why it shakes out like that, but it always has.
|
|
|
Post by ericfromnj on Aug 15, 2012 12:42:31 GMT -8
...back in the 80's there may have been a guy who was called "The Mystic Sponge" because of his afro and everyone would rub dice in his hair for good luck. Before I ran major sessions some of the more - aggressive - metalheads would make Sponge walk around all day with the dice in his hair "charging up."
Somewhere along the way he convinced everyone he needed to recharge his mystical powers by getting laid.
There was a whole mythology it seemed.
I am so glad I stopped doing drugs after the 80's.
|
|
|
Post by HourEleven on Aug 15, 2012 19:01:53 GMT -8
I love d10 systems since they make math easy. An 8-10 success means any dice has a 30% chance if succeeding. Exploding 10s mean you have a 10% chance of exploding, etc.
I might be in the minority, but I prefer digital dice rolling, especially with systems that call for ass loads of dice (Scion, 40k, other games that need 5 fistfuls of dice). It's rather nice, especially if your software can store specific rolls (like inputting the target numbers and chance of explosion, so it counts the successes). That said, I have to express how much I hate dice rollers that just give you number outputs without the visual satisfaction. Full 3d, physics based or nothing.
|
|
jimto
Supporter
Posts: 246
|
Post by jimto on Aug 15, 2012 19:21:38 GMT -8
Rituals are mostly time wasters. If they take 2 seconds, fine, but any longer than that, you are trying my patience.
I read over on yog-sothoth once about a group running Call of Cthulhu who had one player who would keep multiple dice sets out. Each time he needed to roll, he'd roll the appropriate dice from each set, pick the one that did the best and then make his actual roll.
All that does is kill any atmosphere they had going, angered other players, and risked getting him kicked from the game.
Disregarding the odds of what rolls better, cuz honestly I don't care, I'd just roll them all at once if there was room, but at least in groups of 10-15 if room was limited. Rolling one at time is fine IF everyone is OK with it. Obviously they are not, so it needs to end.
As far as cheating goes, I'm pretty sure my feelings on it are well known after my last two DoucheyDM articles.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2012 4:13:56 GMT -8
I feel like "dice rolling rituals" are also dependent on you caring really strongly about the outcome of the roll.
In our group, the bad rolls often make for more exciting gameplay than the good ones. So, while we love to bitch and rage against the major fumbles, they're actually a large part of the fun.
Admittedly, after trying the same action three times last session, and doing worse each time, one player did insist on switching dice, because those ones were clearly out to get him...
--Pukka Tukka
|
|
|
Post by ericfromnj on Aug 16, 2012 6:17:08 GMT -8
Rituals are mostly time wasters. If they take 2 seconds, fine, but any longer than that, you are trying my patience. I read over on yog-sothoth once about a group running Call of Cthulhu who had one player who would keep multiple dice sets out. Each time he needed to roll, he'd roll the appropriate dice from each set, pick the one that did the best and then make his actual roll. All that does is kill any atmosphere they had going, angered other players, and risked getting him kicked from the game. Oh yeah I have had groups where you had one guy with his OCD dice rituals surrounded by people going "Just fucking roll!" Truth be told I loved the Sponge thing because it became part of the whole group and built up that community. Plus it was always fun to have a "guest star" from say my school come play D&D in my neighborhood and be surrounded by a bunch of guys with long hair and Maiden T-Shirts going "Dude, just quick rub it on his head. Serious. Don't jinx us."
|
|