sunshine
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 69
Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds, GURPS, anything with d10s
Currently Playing: L5R - Homebrew
Currently Running: L5R - Homebrew
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Post by sunshine on Dec 16, 2012 15:49:13 GMT -8
So, I think I am getting the hang of this system
I just am curious how you would run this where the squad is on foot and they are against a piloted enemy vehicle
if you want to get more specific - a 12-man squad (incl extras) with an anti tank gun, fighting from the cover of ruined urban buildings
fighting one manned tank
let me know if you want more specs
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Post by jazzisblues on Dec 16, 2012 17:59:13 GMT -8
Assuming the pc's are the squad, I would assemble the squad so that the anti-tank gun had a field of fire from protection and then would use squad troops to create a lure to draw the tank into the fire zone.
JiB
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Post by stork on Dec 16, 2012 18:12:59 GMT -8
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sunshine
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 69
Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds, GURPS, anything with d10s
Currently Playing: L5R - Homebrew
Currently Running: L5R - Homebrew
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Post by sunshine on Dec 17, 2012 15:27:58 GMT -8
ROFL you guys rock SOO much <3
I should be clear.... what actions would the TANK take?!
if I'm running the enemy- I wouldn't try to take them head on... would I??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 19:43:56 GMT -8
typically a tank does not go wandering in urban area without some infantry to flush out what your heroes are doing
tanks get over run by infantry because the hide in the rubble and buildings
At best a lone tank would BLAST any high points where spotters could hide then go around or wait for infantry to back them up
Infantry would be in the same boat if they had to cross open terrain with nothing to hide behind
If this is a classic Americans ambushing a German tank like in Saving Private Ryan I'd use the AT gun on the infantry with HE unless I could set up a side shot even then an American 57mm At gun is all about you could man handle Verse a Tiger 1 or Tiger 2 would be like spitting ping pong balls at it
Unless that AT gun gets a kill with the 1st or 2nd shot it will be dead meat by the time it gets it's 3rd shot comes around If there is a bazooka that would have a better chance of killing the tank with a side shot
If within grenade range molotovs on the engine deck will get them a mobility kill if on a narrow enough street they might get the turret trapped
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sunshine
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 69
Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds, GURPS, anything with d10s
Currently Playing: L5R - Homebrew
Currently Running: L5R - Homebrew
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Post by sunshine on Dec 18, 2012 10:38:45 GMT -8
typically a tank does not go wandering in urban area without some infantry to flush out what your heroes are doing tanks get over run by infantry because the hide in the rubble and buildings At best a lone tank would BLAST any high points where spotters could hide then go around or wait for infantry to back them up Infantry would be in the same boat if they had to cross open terrain with nothing to hide behind If this is a classic Americans ambushing a German tank like in Saving Private Ryan I'd use the AT gun on the infantry with HE unless I could set up a side shot even then an American 57mm At gun is all about you could man handle Verse a Tiger 1 or Tiger 2 would be like spitting ping pong balls at it Unless that AT gun gets a kill with the 1st or 2nd shot it will be dead meat by the time it gets it's 3rd shot comes around If there is a bazooka that would have a better chance of killing the tank with a side shot If within grenade range molotovs on the engine deck will get them a mobility kill if on a narrow enough street they might get the turret trapped Thanks so much!!! this helps a lot!! In this case it is a Panzer 3 - which seems to also have anti-infantry MG30s on the front and rear, which makes more sense for it being able to operate with minimal support - on the edges/outskirts of a city
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2012 21:20:05 GMT -8
A PZ 3 is an early German lt to med tank an american 37mm or 57 mm AT gun will have a good chance of taking out the PZ 3 at 500yds or less the PZ 3's MG 34's are buzz saws spitting out 900 round per minute the 50mm main gun is an ok gun for lt to med tanks HE rounds not really great for anti personal work
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sunshine
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 69
Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds, GURPS, anything with d10s
Currently Playing: L5R - Homebrew
Currently Running: L5R - Homebrew
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Post by sunshine on Dec 19, 2012 9:44:28 GMT -8
A PZ 3 is an early German lt to med tank an american 37mm or 57 mm AT gun will have a good chance of taking out the PZ 3 at 500yds or less the PZ 3's MG 34's are buzz saws spitting out 900 round per minute the 50mm main gun is an ok gun for lt to med tanks HE rounds not really great for anti personal work Beastt- you may claim a hug from me at some point in the near future <3 Thanks a bunch!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2012 13:41:09 GMT -8
Glad I could help
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Post by jazzisblues on Dec 21, 2012 6:32:16 GMT -8
There is a fundamental similarity between tanks and cavalry. One man on horse by himself is not that big a problem even for a handful of peasants with pitchforks except that he can outrun them so if he decides to run he PROBABLY can. A single tank is not really that much of a threat. A hundred men on horse, or a dozen tanks is a different matter. And, as Beastt mentioned a tank most often never goes anywhere without infantry to support it.
In similar fashion, a nuclear aircraft carrier is a formidable weapon, but it's also a vulnerable central spot to attack which is why a carrier always has its escort of subs, frigates, destroyers and tenders that form a bubble around it (all under the command of the carrier) in which nothing exists that the carrier doesn't know about and approve.
Cheers,
JiB
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sunshine
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 69
Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds, GURPS, anything with d10s
Currently Playing: L5R - Homebrew
Currently Running: L5R - Homebrew
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Post by sunshine on Dec 21, 2012 9:23:08 GMT -8
There is a fundamental similarity between tanks and cavalry. One man on horse by himself is not that big a problem even for a handful of peasants with pitchforks except that he can outrun them so if he decides to run he PROBABLY can. A single tank is not really that much of a threat. A hundred men on horse, or a dozen tanks is a different matter. And, as Beastt mentioned a tank most often never goes anywhere without infantry to support it. In similar fashion, a nuclear aircraft carrier is a formidable weapon, but it's also a vulnerable central spot to attack which is why a carrier always has its escort of subs, frigates, destroyers and tenders that form a bubble around it (all under the command of the carrier) in which nothing exists that the carrier doesn't know about and approve. Cheers, JiB Thanks for this analogy, it really helps! I think I can better incorporate this particular mission into wherever it falls (mission randomizer) by adding additional supporting infantry to a sufficient level that my PCs can handle-- depending on how many advances they have
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Post by henryhankovitch on Dec 27, 2012 21:33:18 GMT -8
On the defensive, a tank in an urban setting will probably bunker down, especially in a camouflaged position with a good field of fire. Basically, it acts as a mobile pillbox, waiting for enemy troops or armor to enter its kill zone before opening up. In this situation too, it would have infantry to guard its flanks, alert the crew to targets, etc. In this case, it can provide a diabolical surprise for the players. They're just going down a quiet street, and then all of a sudden it's TAAANK!
On the offensive, a smart tank crew will be really, really cautious. Their best role is to hang back and provide fire support to the infantry, using the main gun to take out enemy positions when the infantry identifies them. If your players are on the defensive, this can create a good way to force the players to change their plans. They're set up to repel infantry, and then all of a sudden they have a tank lobbing shells at them. That forces them to figure out a way to attack the tank, avoid it, or retreat.
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Post by jazzisblues on Dec 28, 2012 6:52:32 GMT -8
On the defensive, a tank in an urban setting will probably bunker down, especially in a camouflaged position with a good field of fire. Basically, it acts as a mobile pillbox, waiting for enemy troops or armor to enter its kill zone before opening up. In this situation too, it would have infantry to guard its flanks, alert the crew to targets, etc. In this case, it can provide a diabolical surprise for the players. They're just going down a quiet street, and then all of a sudden it's TAAANK! On the offensive, a smart tank crew will be really, really cautious. Their best role is to hang back and provide fire support to the infantry, using the main gun to take out enemy positions when the infantry identifies them. If your players are on the defensive, this can create a good way to force the players to change their plans. They're set up to repel infantry, and then all of a sudden they have a tank lobbing shells at them. That forces them to figure out a way to attack the tank, avoid it, or retreat. There is a great scene in one of the early episodes of Band of Brothers where elements of the 101st are clearing a road into a town for some British tanks and they spot a German Tiger tank hunkered down hidden between some buildings just waiting for the British tanks to wander down the street. It illustrates this point really well. If someone is wanting to run a game from this time period that implements elements from WWII or battles I highly recommend watching Band of Brothers, and the subsequent series about Marines in the Pacific titled "the Pacific". They are obviously somewhat romanticized (I thoroughly enjoyed the comments about the series made by an instructor of mine who was in the 82nd Airborne during the same time who knew many of the men in the 101st) but give a really good picture. Cheers, JiB
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