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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 19:02:50 GMT -8
I'm working on a fantasy setting, and have designed an arcane background (elementalism.) There are five variations (one for each element plus a 'generalist'.)
Each of the four element-specific variations can use spells with that specific trapping, but no others. To compensate, they each get a bonus to those spells. Bonuses like that are hard to balance, as a simple '+2 damage" is an across the board bonus and incredibly powerful.
I ended up settling on a variation of a system I read in the Fantasy Toolkit. In it, casters tied to the ground have a reduced Power Point cost when in contact with the ground (-1 per spell, minimum of 1.)
That sounds great. The earth folks get one when in contact with the ground (not in a town, not on wooden floors, not in a boat, etc ) air when exposed to the sky (not indoors or underground), fire during the daylight hours (IE - the sun, even when out of sight, lends power.)
Water is causing me problems. Saying 'when in contact with water' conjures up images of the party carrying around a bucket and the hydromancer standing in it every time there is a fight.
Help me brainstorm a good 'water' limitation that will let the hydromancer get his bonus part of the time, but not all the time.
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Post by Forresst on Jan 29, 2013 21:52:17 GMT -8
Maybe it could be tied to the movement of water? Either the hydromancer got a bonus if he could hear or see water moving, or if you wanted to add a clerical detail (like the daylight hours for the fire guy) the hydromancer gets a bonus at high tide, no bonus at medium tide, and a penalty at low tide?
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Post by stork on Jan 29, 2013 22:05:25 GMT -8
There needs to be a reasonable amount of liquid in the area..a pub has lots of beer and water in it, so they can draw on its power. A desert....not so much.
I'm thinking of the scene in the Incredible's when Fro-zone gets dehydrated, and needs a sip to get his power back.
I agree its a little tricky to say when there is enough liquid around to draw on and when there isn't. It could quickly lead to DM caveat and make the players wary......perhaps Hydro-mancers can draw on liquid at any time, but they run the risk of sucking the moisture out of their own bodies, and perhaps their comrades as well if they are not careful. Most creatures being mostly water, its hard to escape the reality that there is always a water source nearby. It is a dangerous power, and could be played as a double edged sword.
Everyone else simply cant use there power when they aren't near the element....The Hydro-mancer has to be careful to use his power at all.
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Post by ericfromnj on Jan 30, 2013 6:05:34 GMT -8
Keep in mind too the reduced power point cost is a huge bonus.
Are you committed to using power points? You could always do spellcasting with the negative casting modifiers and have it lessened by 1 for the specialist's spells and add 1 or 2 (or ban them outright) for whatever element is in opposition (or the rest of them). That way too the generalist can survive with no bonuses or penalties.
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Post by jazzisblues on Jan 30, 2013 7:45:09 GMT -8
How about making it so they can manipulate the element but not create it. Thus their powers only work for them if they are in the presence of their element. Easy for the earth guy as there's usually ground or rock to stand on, but what if they happen to be at sea? His shit just went out the window. The air guy ends up with the easiest then because if there's not air around they probably have worse problems to think about.
Doesn't solve the problem of the gamers trying to game the system and carry a bucket of water, a bag of earth, a lighter and a fan around with them but if they want to do that I'd probably let them but make it be the element from their homeland and give them the opportunity to reclaim it.
What I might very well do is say that if they are going to use their carried element that's fine but it costs an extra power point because it's not naturally occurring. I've noticed in Savage Worlds games that characters that rely on power points get VERY frugal with them in a real hurry when there are plenty of bad guys around.
Just my 2 krupplenicks on the subject, your mileage may of course vary.
JiB
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Post by jazzisblues on Jan 30, 2013 7:46:11 GMT -8
Keep in mind too the reduced power point cost is a huge bonus. Are you committed to using power points? You could always do spellcasting with the negative casting modifiers and have it lessened by 1 for the specialist's spells and add 1 or 2 (or ban them outright) for whatever element is in opposition (or the rest of them). That way too the generalist can survive with no bonuses or penalties. I really like the idea that if there is a preponderance of their opposing element present that it inhibits or limits their powers. JiB
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 8:03:28 GMT -8
Thanks for the input thus far. Keep in mind too the reduced power point cost is a huge bonus. Yeah, which is why I'm keeping the bonus very conditional. They will be starting with only two powers and 10 PP, plus a very limited spell list, too. Half of the time they'll have a nice bonus, but the rest of the time they'll be a mage with limited spell selection and very limited trappings. Here's my working build. The backlash effects are just placeholders, as I haven't really determined the exact trapping effects I want to use. -------------------------- Arcane Background (Elementalism)Arcane Skill: Elemancy (Smarts) Starting Power Points: 10 Starting Powers: 2 Spell List: Text Elementalists are spellcasters who focus on the four classic elements – earth, air, fire, and water. They channel these primal energies directly into spells, and can be considered masters of them. Such focus, however has limited their ability to learn magic not directly related to the elements. Most people are very wary of elementalists off of the battlefield, as their magic tends to be destructive, as is the backlash of a failed casting. There are five different types of elementalists, depending on which elements they have chosen to master. Casting: An elementalist must have both hands free to gesture. If he does not, he may not cast. He must also carry a Focus, a special tool used to draw and manipulate the elemental energies. If he does not have his Focus, he casts all spells of that element with a -2 to his Elemancy roll. Tools are specially designed and consecrated by the elementalist. They do not have any special powers on their own, and if lost it costs $300 in materials, plus 1 full day of ritual work to create a new one. He must hold the Focus while casting, which means that switching Foci follows the same rules as readying a weapon. (Table detailing Foci) Uncontrolled Burst: If an elementalist rolls a natural 1 on his Elemancy die (regardless of his Wild Die), he loses control of the energy he was channeling with an effect on the caster and everyone adjacent to him. The exact effect depends on the type of elementalist casting the spell. Elementalist: An elementalist is one who has studied each of the four elements equally. As a result, when learning any power, they learn all four trappings at no extra cost, and can switch between them at will. Taking the bolt, for instance, will allow an elementalist to cast water bolt, fire bolt, earth bolt or air bolt. The elementalist cannot take any trappings for any spells other than the four elements.The Elementalist must carry all four Foci to use all four elements. Uncontrolled Burst: Use the effect, below, for the element the failed spell was using. Geomancer: A geomancer is a master of the element of earth. His spells must always use the earth trapping, and no other trapping may be chosen. When directly exposed to the unadulterated earth, the geomancer reduces all casting costs by one power point (1 minimum.) Exactly what qualifies as ‘unadulterated earth’ is up to the GM, but should not include inside cities, in buildings or dungeons with a wooden floor, or on a boat. A stone floor directly against the earth should be fine. A cave with stone walls would be fine as well. Uncontrolled Burst: Does 2d6+2 damage Aeromancer: An aeromancer is a master of the element of air. His spells must always use the air element, and no other trapping may be chosen. When directly exposed to the sky, the aeromancer reduces all casting costs by one power point (1 minimum.) ‘exposed to the sky’ means that there is at least a 1” (6 yard) opening above him, with nothing between him and the sky (including glass.) If you can see the sky and feel a breeze, it is probably exposed. Uncontrolled Burst: Forces affected creatures to make a Vigor roll at -2 or be Shaken. Pyromancer: A pyromancer is a master of the element of fire. His spells must always use the fire trapping, and no other trapping may be chosen. A pyromancer can draw elemental fire energy from the sun, even if he cannot see it. Even underground, the geomancer reduces all casting costs by one power point (1 minimum) during daylight hours, and always knows when the sun is rising or setting. Uncontrolled Burst: Does 2d6 damage, and make a Vigor roll or suffer Fatigue. Hydromancer: A hydromancer is a master of the element of water. His spells must always use the water trapping, and no other trapping may be chosen. When (water stuff), the hydromancer reduces all casting costs by one power point (1 minimum.) Uncontrolled Burst: Does 2d6, AP2 damage.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 8:24:02 GMT -8
Oops, posted an old working copy. Updated with a few things, including the 'Casting' section.
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Post by rickno7 on Jan 30, 2013 8:53:14 GMT -8
What is so bad about the bucket? Ok maybe not a bucket, but make "100% pure water" a rarity and almost like holy water, it has to be purified and consecrated. Then, at great expense, they can carry sealed glass spheres of water that they can break and cover their hands with for the effect. The exposure to air causes the water to become impure after a certain amount of rounds, and they have to break another one.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 9:17:57 GMT -8
That isn't a bad idea, but feels more like a material component than being in the natural presence of their element, which would be inconsistent with the other three forms. I want them to have a 'home turf' advantage that applies about half of the time, but isn't available the rest. It balances out the bonuses, as without the right environment the caster is actually weaker than a regular mage, but with it he has a big advantage. It creates a bit of tactical complexity as the geomancer tries to draw his opponents out of town, or the pyromancer tries to delay an immanent fight until daybreak.
I think I may have an idea. It's cheesy, but it might serve: Aquifers. A significant portion of the earth has underground aquifers, areas of dirt and sand saturated with water. Perhaps:
Hydromancer: A hydromancer is a master of the element of water. His spells must always use the water trapping, and no other trapping may be chosen. When within a 100 yards of a significant natural water source (river, lake, marsh, the ocean) or when it is raining, the hydromancer reduces all casting costs by one power point (1 minimum.) What is ‘significant’ is up to the GM. No, standing in a bucket doesn’t work. If you can fish in it or can’t jump over it without getting your rump wet, it probably qualifies. Furthermore, there is a chance that any particular location has an underground aquifer large enough and close enough to supply the elemental energy the hydromancer needs. For any particular location (encounter site, dungeon, town, camp location – the GM should use common sense), roll a d6. On a 1 or 2 there is an aquifer.
Like I said, it is a bit cheesy, but it creates the 'half the time' effect that the other variants have.
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Post by shadrack on Jan 30, 2013 9:46:39 GMT -8
What you're doing here is giving me an 'Avatar: The Last Airbender' feel.
Somewhat in line with that => you could tie the bonus in to the moon's presence/absence. This doesn't make it specifically day or night, the moon can clearly be up when the sun is. This would also keep your Hydromancer **cough** waterbender **cough** from essentially refusing to go too far from open water/lakes/ponds/rivers/etc.
Also, have you taken a look at the Arcane Background (Magic) from 50 fathoms? => the PC must choose one of the four elements and this restricts their spell list. Once per rank, they can spend an advance to get another element (and therefore access to that spell list as well), but this applies a -1 (per additional element) to all spellcasting rolls (-1 for 2 elements, -2 for 3). If the elementalist trains in all 4 elements (and therefore becomes an Archmage), the penalty goes away as the Archmage has worked out a balance among the elements.
(I like to give an additional spell with this 'elemental mastery' edge as well). Some spells are available to multiple elements (bolt for example), so if you train in a new element you can cast bolt whichever way you choose.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 10:50:09 GMT -8
Actually, I've never seen Avatar. I have spent a lot of time studying the mythology around the classical elements, though.
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Post by shadrack on Jan 30, 2013 11:15:52 GMT -8
It streams on Netflix and Amazon Prime, and is well worth the time investment.
There is that **shudder** Movie adaptation ('The Last Airbender'). If you watch it first, it 'might' be okay... But you probably won't like it if you watch the series first.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 21:07:38 GMT -8
Thanks for all the input. Here is what I ended up with:
Arcane Background (Elementalism)
Arcane Skill: Elemancy (Smarts) Starting Power Points: 10 Starting Powers: 3
Spell List Powers: Airwalk, Armor, Barrier, Blast, Blind, Bolt, Burst, Confusion, Damage Field, Deflection, Detect/Conceal Arcana, Dispel, Divination, Entangle, Environmental Protection, Fear, Havoc, Hypnotic Orb, Light/Obscure, Petrify, Pummel, Sentry, Smite, Stun, Summon Ally (elementals only)
Charms: All
Rituals: Astral Travel, Demonic Control (Elem/Pyro only), Demonic Summoning (Elem/Pyro only), True Teleportation, Wards, Weather Mastery (Aero/Aqua only.)
Elementalists are spellcasters who focus on the four classic elements – earth, air, fire, and water. They channel these primal energies directly into spells, and can be considered masters of them. Such focus, however has limited their ability to learn magic not directly related to the elements. Most people are very wary of elementalists off of the battlefield, as their magic tends to be destructive, as is the backlash of a failed casting.
Casting: An elementalist must have both hands free, one to gesture, the other to hold his Focus. If he does not, he may not cast. He must also carry a Focus, a special tool used to draw and manipulate the elemental energies. If he does not have his Focus, he casts all spells of that element with a -2 to his Elemancy roll. Tools are specially designed and consecrated by the elementalist. They do not have any special powers on their own, and if lost it costs $300 in materials, plus 1 full day of ritual work to create a new one. He must hold the Focus while casting, which means that switching Foci follows the same rules as readying a weapon. Elementalist rituals consist of complex evocations through intense movement, sound (even music), and visualization, drawing massive amounts of raw elemental energy into the ritual space.
Element Tool Earth - A metal disk inscribed with arcane symbols Air - A wand Fire - A dagger or sword Water - A chalice
There are five different types of elementalists, depending on which element the individual has chosen to master.
Uncontrolled Burst: If an elementalist rolls a natural 1 on his Elemancy die (regardless of his Wild Die), he loses control of the energy he was channeling, impacting him in some way. What that impact is depends on the element in use.
Elementalist: An elementalist is one who has studied each of the four elements equally. As a result, when learning any power, they learn all four trappings at no extra cost, and can switch between them at will. Taking the bolt, for instance, will allow an elementalist to cast water bolt, fire bolt, earth bolt or air bolt. The elementalist cannot take any trappings for any spells other than the four elements. The Elementalist must carry all four Foci to use all four elements. Uncontrolled Burst: Use the effect, below, for the element the failed spell was using.
Geomancer: A geomancer is a master of the element of earth. His spells must always use the earth trapping, and no other trapping may be chosen. When directly exposed to the unadulterated earth, the geomancer reduces all casting costs by one power point (1 minimum.) Exactly what qualifies as ‘unadulterated earth’ is up to the GM, but should not include inside cities, in buildings or dungeons with a wooden floor, or on a boat. A stone floor directly against the earth should be fine. A cave with stone walls would be fine as well. Uncontrolled Burst: The element of earth draws the geomancer in, making him heavy. His Pace is halved for the remainder of the encounter.
Aeromancer: An aeromancer is a master of the element of air. His spells must always use the air element, and no other trapping may be chosen. When directly exposed to the sky, the aeromancer reduces all casting costs by one power point (1 minimum.) ‘exposed to the sky’ means that there is at least a 1” (6 yard) opening above him, with nothing between him and the sky (including glass.) If you can see the sky and feel a breeze, it is probably exposed. Uncontrolled Burst: The air rushes out of his lungs, leaving him gasping. Character becomes Shaken.
Pyromancer: A pyromancer is a master of the element of fire. His spells must always use the fire trapping, and no other trapping may be chosen. A pyromancer can draw elemental fire energy from the sun, even if he cannot see it. Even underground, the geomancer reduces all casting costs by one power point (1 minimum) during daylight hours, and always knows when the sun is rising or setting. Uncontrolled Burst: Intense heat buffets the caster, causing one level of heat Fatigue.
Hydromancer: A hydromancer is a master of the element of water. His spells must always use the water trapping, and no other trapping may be chosen. When within a 100 yards of a significant natural water source (river, lake, marsh, the ocean) or when it is raining, the hydromancer reduces all casting costs by one power point (1 minimum.) What is ‘significant’ is up to the GM. No, standing in a bucket doesn’t work. If you can fish in it or can’t jump over it without getting your rump wet, it probably qualifies. Furthermore, there is a chance that any particular location has an underground aquifer large enough and close enough to qualify. For any particular location (encounter site, dungeon, town, camp location – the GM should use common sense), roll a d6. On a 1 or 2 there is an aquifer. Uncontrolled Burst: Caster is drenched with freezing water, causing one level of cold Fatigue.
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Post by jazzisblues on Jan 31, 2013 6:15:56 GMT -8
You have what might be an inconsistency in your design here. You will have to decide for yourself.
You assert that the Elementist must have their hands free to cast, but then you assert that they must have their focus in hand to cast and one of the focii is a thing to be worn (I think) the metal disk.
This is a little confusing to me, or would be if I were a player reading this cold.
Were it me, I would make all of the focii something that is worn much like a priest's holy symbol but it wouldn't necessarily have to be worn around the neck, and then change it to read that it must be worn or the caster suffers a -2 penalty ...
Just a thought as I was reading this. All in all it sounds really good, and lots of fun. If you added in a martial arts aspect you would totally be right on the whole Last Airbender thing.
Cheers,
JiB
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