Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 12:08:04 GMT -8
I've been running a campaign in GURPS for two sessions now and I have encountered a problem with balance.
I intended for the majority of enemies to use bows as their primary weapon type because they are bandits and have an intelligent leader. This is when I discovered that bows, unlike in real life, deal very little damage. If I have spent 40 points in strength and I am wielding a longbow (the weapon that basically ended the age of knights) I deal 1d+2 damage. To put that in perspective, the guy I gave that to needed a sidearm, so I gave him throwing axes. The throwing axes dealt 2d+2 damage because they were swinging!
Now of course there is the argument that most thrusting weapons are also impaling, meaning they are better at piercing armour, and that balances it. No it does not, Straw Man, when the base damage dealt by thrusting is typically half of swinging. I think that this is true that swinging weapons deal more damage in the real world, and I actually like the separation; what I do not like is that there is no balancing factor. If I spend 40 points in a thrust weapon, they are worth the same as if I had put 20 points in a swinging weapon.
In order for a point system to make sense, there can't be this wide a gap between the payout and the result.
Are there balancing factors that I have missed? I hope so.
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nanoboy
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Post by nanoboy on Apr 24, 2013 13:08:48 GMT -8
What you missed were damage multipliers (and optionally certain hit locations.) I don't have the book in front of me, so I can't give you a page number, but here are the relevant details. Arrows do impaling damage, so if you hit someone in the torso and groin, damage is x2 HP after armor reduction. Axes do cutting damage, so if you hit someone in the torso and groin, they do x1.5 after armor reduction. If you use hit locations, then you can use impaling weapons (or piercing or tight-beam burning weapons like lasers) to do x3 damage with a hit to the vitals. Cutting weapons get x2 damage to limbs and the neck.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 15:58:03 GMT -8
Cutting edges are, in reality, terrible at penetrating through armor. This isn't well reflected in GURPS' rules-as-written, though it's addressed by an optional rule in Low Tech ("Blunt Trauma and Edge Weapons", pg 102). In short, cutting attacks must exceed double the armor's DR to penetrate; short of that, and they're treated as crushing instead (losing their Wound Modifier, increased bleeding chance, etc). If your bandits are still having trouble penetrating armor with arrows compared to axes, give them Bodkin arrowheads, changing damage from impaling to piercing with a (2) armor divisor. Aim for the Vitals, and they'll perform just as well after-armor as impaling.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 10:12:07 GMT -8
The way that I've been treating the multipliers after armour is that they can never increase the damage beyond what is rolled. For example if I deal 9 damage to someone who has 4 DR, then 5 gets through multiplies by 2 (if it is impaling) and deals 8 damage. the reason why I am doing it like this is because of weapons like the pickaxe. The pickaxe is a swinging weapon that deals impaling damage. If the modifier doubled damage, the pickaxe would be an instant kill every time.
However, thank you nanoboy. I didn't realize that hit locations altered damage. I thought they only altered what the damage represented. And thank you vierasmarius, I will have to check out that book and read up on different arrowheads, they might give me the edge needed to make these guys threatening.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 10:15:06 GMT -8
Whoops, I meant 9 damage total, not 8, in the example. it should have been: "For example if I deal 9 damage to someone who has 4 DR, then 5 gets through multiplies by 2 (if it is impaling) and deals 9 damage [Instead of 10]."
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nanoboy
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Post by nanoboy on Apr 25, 2013 12:26:11 GMT -8
Yeah, you shouldn't do that. That definitely makes impaling weapons less than the murder sticks that they are. Picks are great, but they have a major drawback: getting stuck. There is a rule about picks getting stuck and then the PC having to pull it out again. (I have always wanted to make a character who carries around 3 or 4 picks and simply steps back and draws another one when dealing with a stuck weapon.)
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Post by mook on Apr 25, 2013 12:40:03 GMT -8
The amount of arrow damage has never really bugged me - I think, yeah, hit locations/damage multipliers are the way to go here. For an easily-offset -3 hit penalty for the Vitals, the 14 ST Archer will roll an average of 5.5 I think? x3 for a Vital hit will do 15 points of damage, which is gonna be a bad day for almost anyone.
As pointed out armor is gonna blunt some of that damage, but I'd say if it bugs the GM just give the arrows an armor divisor of 2 (or even 3!) to make 'em a little more deadly.
Pew! Pew!
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Nolinquisitor
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Next Project: BrigadeCon, RPGS 2 Your Science Fantasy Toolkit Supersetting
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Preferred Game Systems: GURPS, M&M, 7th Sea, Cypher System
Currently Playing: Playing is for the weak.
Currently Running: Cypher System, D&D 5E + Freeport
Favorite Species of Monkey: Dr. Zaius
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Post by Nolinquisitor on Jun 27, 2013 6:36:52 GMT -8
Advantages of the bow over throwing axes: range & precision.
Tip for making a realistic archer: Take the Aim maneuver. Take your time. Breathe in. Hold it. Calm down. Aim some vital part. Calm down. Let the arrow go. Also, often use fine arrows it will help boost the damage a bit. You get more for your coins.
Tip for making a fantasy archer: buy some level of Strike ST (Only with bows -20%) or maybe buy an Innate Attack linked with arrows shooting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2013 8:43:30 GMT -8
Alright, thanks guys for the feedback. I still find that a lot of things about GURPS combat does still bother me, but my group has not been getting into combat a lot anyways, so I guess it isn't really a big deal. I guess I'm not used to a game where the balance between characters is so relative, having come from the class-based world of D&D. Which is not to say the the classes in D&D are all balanced, because they aren't, but in GURPS, just varying one aspect of your character's available options will make you vastly more powerful than someone who made a different choice. It feels like you are sacrificing usefulness for flavour.
But no matter, I just need to get used to GURPS. Thanks again.
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