SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on May 21, 2013 8:34:19 GMT -8
I'm having trouble with this game right now and I want some feedback. My original intent was to explore Hida Yama's(PC) taint issues while having them deal with some political machinations from the Governor's daughter.
After getting some feedback from folks, it seems that they feel there isn't a solid direction in the game so I'm thinking of tying the two ideas together a bit more. My idea is to have the Governor's daughter team up with another person in the city who is sort of a black market guy and hit them party from two directions to undermine them. The black market guy will hit them with thugs and try to maneuver them into unknowingly get addicted to opium and the daughter will actually be a maho witch who will hit them with that as well as politically. I'll eventually introduce a Witch Hunter who is torn between helping the party against a witch or take her and Yama down. Let them maybe offer a deal.
Thoughts?
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on May 21, 2013 15:31:22 GMT -8
I have to say that after the debacle that was my Wild Talents game, and now this one... I'm really thinking I am a shit GM and should give up.
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merryprankster
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Post by merryprankster on May 21, 2013 16:58:25 GMT -8
I think the idea of a city official under the influence of the Shadowlands is cool and having that official aligned with an opium smuggling ring sounds cool too. The only thing that seems like it might be off to me is that from your description it seems like the baddies exist soley and foils for the heroes. I always find stories more interesting when the baddies have their own agendas independent from the heroes.
For what it's worth that's my 2 cents.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on May 21, 2013 17:30:05 GMT -8
Well, their agenda is to get their own people in as Magistrate and yoriki so they can go control the city better.
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merryprankster
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Post by merryprankster on May 21, 2013 21:10:48 GMT -8
Ah, that makes sense. So the opium ring has turned to the dark power of the shadowlands, aligning themselves with a tainted official, in a desperate bid for control. That sounds pretty awesome actually. So why is the official interested in the opium rings, what's her motivation for getting in league with the opium ring? Now I am asking mostly out of curiosity, but it sounds like you have a pretty sordid affair brewing there.
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Post by evilgingerdm on May 22, 2013 6:07:31 GMT -8
I have to say that after the debacle that was my Wild Talents game, and now this one... I'm really thinking I am a shit GM and should give up. Only having listened to your l5r AP ( i've never had the pleasure of pplaying in one of your games), I'd have to disagree, I think you do a fine job. Everyone gets writers block at times, just stick with it.
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Post by jazzisblues on May 22, 2013 12:05:19 GMT -8
I have to say that after the debacle that was my Wild Talents game, and now this one... I'm really thinking I am a shit GM and should give up. Negative Ghost Rider ... I have played in one of your games and you're a fine gm. Sometimes games fall flat despite the gm doing everything right. I know of no way to accurately predict whether a game will fly or flop until it's been played. I often do not get the response from the players that I was anticipating. If the players are expressing unhappiness with the game, throw it back on them, "Ok so you're not digging what's going on, what do you want to be different?" They may not be able to answer, but it's a valid question asked and hopefully answered without rancor. Cheers, JiB
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Post by The Northman on May 22, 2013 12:58:52 GMT -8
Not to continue to pile on the compliments, risking an end to your G+ gaming career as your head no longer fits in your headset, but I think you've been doing a great job. If I'm entertained just listening, I'm sure the bulk of your players are doubly so in participating. Multi-clan games are really, really hard to keep afloat, and I've never had much luck with the Magistrate fix.
A few questions so I can try and help out:
1 - Is Yama's taint at the level where it can be detected, and if not do you plan on arranging some scenarios in which it might grow in the near future?
2 - You said you aren't playing with the Spider Clan side of the setting, right? I only ask because that has a huge impact on how having the Taint is viewed. Without/in the older setting, you could be an unfortunate victim. With, you're a willing participant. That's going to play a huge role in determining whether Yama would even be in the sights of a Kuni if there's a full-blown Maho-tsukai running around.
Also, don't be afraid to keep plans simple. If the daughter is behind all of it you only have one villain to flesh out, and she might be stronger for it. Obviously she can have a patsy/Lieutenant that they can assume is behind it all...hell, maybe there's Maho in the morphine and Mr Yakuza doesn't even know it...though there have been some REALLY bad trips lately.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on May 23, 2013 7:17:58 GMT -8
Yama's taint is over a full rank, so it is detectable. I am planning to make the Governor's daughter into a witch and start screwing with Yama and Kojiro with maho and increasing their taint that way.
I'm playing it as a sort of altered version of the Pre-Coup setting. Taint at this point is a very big deal, anyone caught with a rank or more is going to be under serious scrutiny.
The more I think on it the more I am considering going with having the pair of bad guys(governor's daughter and her accomplice the Yasuki) be the main plot but their plan of attack be split in three ways. Maho, politics, and straight up thuggery. Have their Magistrate boss be knowledgeable of the situation and maneuver them into the right places to do the most damage against the enemies while working politically in the background.
Oh, and while I appreciate the comments about my GMing(I really do), I still disagree.
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Post by The Northman on May 23, 2013 9:09:48 GMT -8
That makes more sense (on the taint).
So, in introducing the Kuni you're jamming Yama pretty hard. Not only is he a potential target, but his options are going to be pretty limited if his condition becomes known - even the crab are basically going to require him to live out his days on the wall as a berserker, yeah? His alternatives (kill the Kuni? Run and hide?) all involve hugely dishonorable acts which would likely further fuel the darkness inside him.
Maybe as an alternative, a Scorpion jade magistrate could fill that role. Much more likely to result in outcomes that would keep Yama enjoyable to play, while still complicating his life with things like potential blackmail. Or have the Kuni himself be something of a radical, possibly harboring his/her own taint or controversial views on the Shadowlands (if it's pre-coup, after all, Kisada's shame hasn't shown everyone the ultimate doom found in trying to harness such things).
To keep the players from getting overwhelmed (which your TC has already voiced concern over) since they're already wrestling with the setting, even if you use the multiple villains I think I'd present them in stages. Yasuki --> Daughter ---> Magistrate who's been engineering everything. Maybe they have an opportunity to discover the connection to the daughter when they bring down the crime boss. Either way it seems like it will take a pretty good length of time for it all to come to fruition.
I guess my initial concern over multiple big-bads was over the fact that (for me) the more complex I make my antagonist(s), the more I find myself leaning toward railroading players down a set path so they don't miss out on my hard work.
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Post by Stu Venable on May 23, 2013 9:43:28 GMT -8
When I've had players tell me they were floundering and didn't know what to do, in nearly every case my plot hooks lacked one thing: a clear course of action.
Plot hooks need two things: a reason to get involved and a clear course of action. With out them, they're not plot hook, they're just interesting situations.
A clear course of action lays out something the party can *DO* to solve the problem to move the story forward. It doesn't (and shouldn't) be the only course of action, but it should be clear and obvious.
The clear course of action doesn't even need to be a good idea. It can be a terrible idea, but even if and when the party rejects it, it at least indicates where some more of the story may lie.
If the party learns that a very powerful evil mage is doing inhuman experiments in his tower in the swamp and the party needs to stop him before he's too powerful to resists, the party has a clear course of action. Go to the tower and kill the game.
Now, depending on the game, that might be a TERRIBLE idea. Maybe the mage, in his tower with all of his defenses in place, his minions armed and alert, is a death trap for the PCs. So maybe they don't go to the tower and try to kill him, but maybe they go spy on the tower. Maybe they go to the nearby town and try to find out more about the mage.
By giving them a clear course of action (even a stupid one), you give them something or someone to focus on.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on May 23, 2013 9:56:36 GMT -8
Ok, so maybe I should have a meeting with the Magistrate then. Have him lay out what's going on and basically tell them that he's aware of it and he needs their help to stop them. As for Yama, I do enjoy the Jade Magistrate idea. Brain is still churning... This is why I wanted this forum. If left to my own devices I don't notice all the pitfalls in my plans.
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Post by The Northman on May 23, 2013 10:33:18 GMT -8
When I've had players tell me they were floundering and didn't know what to do, in nearly every case my plot hooks lacked one thing: a clear course of action. That's a great point, and one of the reasons why so many players find themselves lost in sandbox-style games, where you're effectively doing that on purpose. SG - I think the biggest thing you can do is decide who your villains are, what their goals are, how they're moving toward them, and how far their willing to go/what their action of last resort is. That should give you a good skeleton to build on as the party chooses which way to go. Any or all of the antagonists could be viewed as allies depending on who the characters talk to first and what sorts of personalities you inject them with. Then you can sick the party on someone via the head magistrate and see how they approach it.
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Post by evilgingerdm on May 24, 2013 5:40:11 GMT -8
That makes more sense (on the taint). Or have the Kuni himself be something of a radical, possibly harboring his/her own taint or controversial views on the Shadowlands (if it's pre-coup, after all, Kisada's shame hasn't shown everyone the ultimate doom found in trying to harness such things... Slight Spoilers ahead for the TV show Dexter.. I like this Idea, personally. If you've ever watched Dexter, one of the Seasons He Experiments with having someone to share his Dark work with. Maybe hes a "fight fire with fire" kinda guy and has been using his Own taint(hehehe) as a tool to hunt down others. He tries to recruit Yama into his thinking process, with delusion of starting a new arm of the Kuni...
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on May 24, 2013 7:14:04 GMT -8
I like that idea too. Like Kuni Yori did when he and Hida Kisada started harnessing the power of the Shadowlands as a way to make themselves stronger. Linking Hida Yakamo with an oni, things like that. I do indeed like that idea.
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