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Post by Kainguru on May 31, 2013 7:59:30 GMT -8
I realise that... even people with disabilities try and succeed... look at the special olympics for example. BUT if I had rolled a 3 a 2 and 1 for my Intelligence (i.e Intelligence 6) my character has the intelligence of a troll. To come up with brilliant plans and strategies would then be metagaming because my character cant do that. He has the same intelligence as Troll... the fantasy genres dumb creature that gets tricked by the PCs. In any case, glad to hear the session went well. Well derailed Sir . . . and the resurrection of one of this forums mouldy old bugbears . . . what is intelligence and how does one RP it? I side with CC that player agency shouldn't be limited by the number next the Intelligence stat. A low intelligence troll, like a PC, may be limited by what it can learn and the information it can retrieve but it's more than just it's low intelligence that makes it easily tricked - poor judgement as represented by Wisdom and a lack of cultural sophistication. Could you as easily trick a NPC from a sophisticated culture with the same trick one uses on a Troll? eg: the NPC may be thick as a troll but knows that the glass shiney you are proffering isn't worth jack shit on the street he lives on . . . Aaron
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kevinr
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 158
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Post by kevinr on Jun 2, 2013 19:52:03 GMT -8
Out of curiosity what is the new characters reason for joining the party?
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Jun 2, 2013 20:56:51 GMT -8
Out of curiosity what is the new characters reason for joining the party? In deciding the character's life during the interview - when I brought out the map and showed where in the world the group was currently playing - the player placed the character's origin point on Seahold of the Sea Princes. I opened the Gazetteer and we got into a discussion about slavery because of the practices of the Sea Princes. Based on this discussion, the player chose to be from the capital. And because of these choices I revealed information about the coastline, particularly the Elves. The Elves are technologically advanced, which makes the question about low fantasy or high fantasy rather complicated to answer when I want to keep player knowledge in the dark. Also impossible to answer because I see the period of time we play in as parallel to earth during the spread of Christianity as far as the Elves are concerned. But reavers would know the existence of such things as electric lights because that would be a prize thing to have on their ships: light without fire. (And why would the Elves plod on with busy work when a flashlight frees them one spell per day more?) So after establishing this I laid my cards on the table. At the end of the Blue Book, the player/character will be in the Elven country with the other players/characters. I needed the reason from him. He decided his reason was to find Elven amplification technology to amplify/propagate his spiritual message/music. And if you think I am going to pass up the opportunity to play the Jimi Hendrix of Elves, Wa-hELL, you don't know how big a ham I can be. The first group meeting had the player familar with v3.5 attempt to classify the character as a bard.... ( and so much for the arguments about solving "cookie cutter restrictions" on player's play due to class in AD&D 1e.) Not sure what the player's background is but I suspect he is a person with a keen ear for music. We will get to know him as we play. There will be singing as I require the use of components!
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Post by Arcona on Jun 11, 2013 2:13:17 GMT -8
I realise that... even people with disabilities try and succeed... look at the special olympics for example. BUT if I had rolled a 3 a 2 and 1 for my Intelligence (i.e Intelligence 6) my character has the intelligence of a troll. To come up with brilliant plans and strategies would then be metagaming because my character cant do that. He has the same intelligence as Troll... the fantasy genres dumb creature that gets tricked by the PCs. In any case, glad to hear the session went well. Well derailed Sir . . . and the resurrection of one of this forums mouldy old bugbears . . . what is intelligence and how does one RP it? I side with CC that player agency shouldn't be limited by the number next the Intelligence stat. A low intelligence troll, like a PC, may be limited by what it can learn and the information it can retrieve but it's more than just it's low intelligence that makes it easily tricked - poor judgement as represented by Wisdom and a lack of cultural sophistication. Could you as easily trick a NPC from a sophisticated culture with the same trick one uses on a Troll? eg: the NPC may be thick as a troll but knows that the glass shiney you are proffering isn't worth jack shit on the street he lives on . . . Aaron I disagree not for the shake of disagreeing but because I feel people shouldnt have an unfair advantage over others due to their skills. If one of my players is a bodybuilder I wont let his Str 6 gnome character throw a piano of a building just because he can do it in real life. Similarly if one of my players is a politician with a golden tongue but playing a thick half-orc barbarian with low charisma I wont let him fast talk the pretty elven bard maiden. He can try and impress her with his strength but not with his speech. I also wont allow the strategic planner playing the super spontanteous wisdom 6 'lets charge' sorceror come up with a 5 step strategic plan about routing the enemy with multiple assault feints tactic. Sure, I might be limiting my players but when they decided to play that character they knew what it meant to put those stats there. I will award bonuses for roleplaying on the rolls (its mentioned in most rulebooks that the DM/ST can award reduced difficulty, bonus dice etc for this) but I will ask my players not to metagame talents that they have as players. Similarly if a character is an engineer but played by a player with no idea of engineering I will support him by giving him ideas or information what his character could do with this knowledge to design traps etc. It off course swings both ways... I will play the NPC given their stats/abilities and information and not my personal knowledge of everything happening in the game! Lastly, roleplaying limitations is also part of roleplaying. I dont view it as hampering creativity. If a player asks me to play a blind/mute/disabled character I will allow it but make him aware of the challenging nature of this idea. In Vampire for example I had a PC that played a mute character (his sire had taken off his tongue before embracing him for being rude) and alot of the situations turned out really badly due to his inability to speak to his comrades (until eventually he got Auspex 4 and could use telepathy!).
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Post by The Northman on Jun 11, 2013 4:24:01 GMT -8
Is that like the mating dance you use if you're shooting a guy down?
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Post by Arcona on Jun 11, 2013 4:31:54 GMT -8
I dont shoot guys down. I shoot em up!
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Post by Stu Venable on Jun 11, 2013 9:09:36 GMT -8
I disagree not for the shake of disagreeing but because I feel people shouldnt have an unfair advantage over others due to their skills. If one of my players is a bodybuilder I wont let his Str 6 gnome character throw a piano of a building just because he can do it in real life. Similarly if one of my players is a politician with a golden tongue but playing a thick half-orc barbarian with low charisma I wont let him fast talk the pretty elven bard maiden. He can try and impress her with his strength but not with his speech. I also wont allow the strategic planner playing the super spontanteous wisdom 6 'lets charge' sorceror come up with a 5 step strategic plan about routing the enemy with multiple assault feints tactic. Sure, I might be limiting my players but when they decided to play that character they knew what it meant to put those stats there. I will award bonuses for roleplaying on the rolls (its mentioned in most rulebooks that the DM/ST can award reduced difficulty, bonus dice etc for this) but I will ask my players not to metagame talents that they have as players. Similarly if a character is an engineer but played by a player with no idea of engineering I will support him by giving him ideas or information what his character could do with this knowledge to design traps etc. It off course swings both ways... I will play the NPC given their stats/abilities and information and not my personal knowledge of everything happening in the game! Lastly, roleplaying limitations is also part of roleplaying. I dont view it as hampering creativity. If a player asks me to play a blind/mute/disabled character I will allow it but make him aware of the challenging nature of this idea. In Vampire for example I had a PC that played a mute character (his sire had taken off his tongue before embracing him for being rude) and alot of the situations turned out really badly due to his inability to speak to his comrades (until eventually he got Auspex 4 and could use telepathy!). As GM, I get to control the world, the weather, every animal and every NPC in it. The players control their characters. I would never, ever tell the player "your character wouldn't do that." I may suggest that a course of action seems uncharacteristic. I may give them a judgmental look. I would NEVER take away their control of their character. Ever.* Have you ever heard the show? * "Never" except in cases of psionics or some other mind control.
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Post by The Northman on Jun 11, 2013 9:54:23 GMT -8
I disagree not for the shake of disagreeing but because I feel people shouldnt have an unfair advantage over others due to their skills. If one of my players is a bodybuilder I wont let his Str 6 gnome character throw a piano of a building just because he can do it in real life. Similarly if one of my players is a politician with a golden tongue but playing a thick half-orc barbarian with low charisma I wont let him fast talk the pretty elven bard maiden. He can try and impress her with his strength but not with his speech. I also wont allow the strategic planner playing the super spontanteous wisdom 6 'lets charge' sorceror come up with a 5 step strategic plan about routing the enemy with multiple assault feints tactic. Sure, I might be limiting my players but when they decided to play that character they knew what it meant to put those stats there. I will award bonuses for roleplaying on the rolls (its mentioned in most rulebooks that the DM/ST can award reduced difficulty, bonus dice etc for this) but I will ask my players not to metagame talents that they have as players. Similarly if a character is an engineer but played by a player with no idea of engineering I will support him by giving him ideas or information what his character could do with this knowledge to design traps etc. It off course swings both ways... I will play the NPC given their stats/abilities and information and not my personal knowledge of everything happening in the game! Lastly, roleplaying limitations is also part of roleplaying. I dont view it as hampering creativity. If a player asks me to play a blind/mute/disabled character I will allow it but make him aware of the challenging nature of this idea. In Vampire for example I had a PC that played a mute character (his sire had taken off his tongue before embracing him for being rude) and alot of the situations turned out really badly due to his inability to speak to his comrades (until eventually he got Auspex 4 and could use telepathy!). As GM, I get to control the world, the weather, every animal and every NPC in it. The players control their characters. I would never, ever tell the player "your character wouldn't do that." I may suggest that a course of action seems uncharacteristic. I may give them a judgmental look. I would NEVER take away their control of their character. Ever.* Have you ever heard the show? * "Never" except in cases of psionics or some other mind control. Besides...your control of the NPCs they're interacting with means you should never have to tell them they can't try something. If they keep trying to sweet talk barmaids with their troll, it not only doesn't have to work, but could become an excellent and entertaining feature of the game. Especially when it finally works.
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maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
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Post by maxinstuff on Jun 11, 2013 18:43:12 GMT -8
I realise that... even people with disabilities try and succeed... look at the special olympics for example. BUT if I had rolled a 3 a 2 and 1 for my Intelligence (i.e Intelligence 6) my character has the intelligence of a troll. To come up with brilliant plans and strategies would then be metagaming because my character cant do that. He has the same intelligence as Troll... the fantasy genres dumb creature that gets tricked by the PCs. In any case, glad to hear the session went well. The troll might be a bad example? Even then, I am sure even trolls have some cunning in them. Think of wolves, Int score of 2, not even sapient - and yet their favourite combat tactic is sending in a few head on attackers while the rest flank. You can't say this isn't 'intelligent'. I think high Int scores indicate true ability dealing with more abstract, difficult to visualise concepts. Like complicated math, philosophy, interplanar quantum physics etc. Even learning to read and write at the lower end (6 I think is the threshold for illiteracy in D&D?). But a low Int in no way says that a person cannot see what is right in front of them, or even come up with creative solutions based on what they see. Even an Int 6 troll will have some tricks up it's sleeve (maybe it digs pit traps around it's lair etc.) Maybe if you rolled a 3 it would be pushing it? But even that is said to be within the range of sapient creatures of 'human-like intelligence'. tl;drHigh intelligence should mean something. 18 Int is a damned genius.
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