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Post by CreativeCowboy on May 29, 2013 12:27:01 GMT -8
So I had the player interview on Sunday and have rushed to insert the player into the Saturday game. This means I had to schedule a Blue Book game this week. i choose Thursday night. 24 hours from now. A Blue Book is an initial game. The GM engages the new player in role-play interaction using first person. There is the idea of running the player through some sort of routing thing so they feel comfortable and confident verbalizing within a group. And there is combat to get the player familar with the character sheet. The Blue Book is the first time the player gets to see his character sheet. I fill that out based on the interview. In terms of game knowledge: I pulled out a map; told the player where I will place/railroad him so he can be with the other players; and let him pick an origin point. I told him a little about the country he will arrive into (to avoid role-playing all that in what would become a very long and ultimately pointless session) and we collaboratively created the country he is from. So this is where the player is at the moment and the purpose or goals I wish to accomplish with him. He is an agnostic priest from the path of 3M, based from a slaving country. He is a Half-Elf, fully aware of the type of welcome he will get from the Elven Aryan Brotherhood. His order is sending him with a letter of credit to the Elves to trade in a specific product. Not a very wealthy order, Maestro Mathius has devised that this young nameless Acolyte can help the order procure this product that will have a great local resale value. The trip entrusted upon the player is a 12 - 16 week round trip overland journey (an adventure in itself). The church has given him 5 Silver Weights to cover expenses and our man is outfitted for small game hunting as well as an abundance of self-reliance as you would expect from an Agnostic church cleric. The game is fantasy. The map is here: www.gotbowie.com/arps/old_wogmap/wog-large/Greyhawk%20Map%20Left%20Big.jpg The player starts the journey at Monmurg, capital of Hold of the Sea Princes. He has chosen the travel along the shore to Gradsul, Kingdom of Keoland, to the mouth of the first river and head north from there to travel into the Dwarven Principality of Ulek along the first branch of the river. From there he crosses the foothills into the Elven country of Celene, picking up the main road until it branches to the trade caravan road where he is headed towards the centre of trade in Celene. As a first level Acolyte he has one spell per day (Purify Food and Drink) and can lay on hands in its place. Armed with staff and sling (stones) and dressed in robes encumbered by a backback. I suppose he could/should pick up a guide in Gradsul, based on a promisory note in the name of the monastary. The teachings of the church are based upon the reverence of music and the holy cymbal the player designed is based upon that creed. Another point where he could easily find a guide is in the Dwarven foothills of the Lortmil Mountains. I am just plain mentally exhausted to be honest. Any ideas? I am not looking for "balanced encounters." The world is alive with story rather than a levelled dungeon crawl and I suspect that is why the player sensibly decided to follow the shoreline. As you can tell from the map, the majority of the journey is through flatlands. I am open to your ideas.
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Post by Arcona on May 29, 2013 13:10:33 GMT -8
What kind of ideas are you looking for?
Story? Encounters? Mini side adventures?
Also why Purify food and drink? And what do you mean he only has that spell? Clerics know all spells in their spell list and can simply choose which one he wants to pray for? What about domain bonuses and bonus spells as well as spells from high wisdom?
A cleric is his spells (much like the wizard) and so thats a pretty important thing for him to have and to know about. Also... clerics in DnD are not monks... monks are monks. Clerics (more often) can wield more decent weapons and armor than a staff which makes them survivable and useful when out of spells. A guy with a sling and a staff and no healing wont last long as a soloer and wont be really helpful to the rest of your party.
Lastly, is the player experienced or new?
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Post by CreativeCowboy on May 29, 2013 22:31:18 GMT -8
Yes. I understood this is not a system specific forum. We play AdvancedThousandSunsDragonWarriorsHomeBrewDungeons&Dragons, shortened to AD&D 1e. That's probably besides the point. It is a campaign game that is story-based.
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Post by Arcona on May 29, 2013 23:40:32 GMT -8
The forum is not system specific but you mentioned he has 1 spell and what spell he has and well thats a DnD spell... the comments came to help you.
So yea, campaign and story based is fun but if I suggest you a story part where he has to come up against enemies where talking want do any good he will have to fight... you know like in the real world middle ages or any fantasy game world...
Regardless,
I guess an idea is the following if you want to keep it encounter lite.
On his way to wherever he is going he meets a caravan of travelling minstrels. They are heading more or less the same way so they offer to join up. This is a nice way to give him more info about the world as the minstrels have been everywhere and are eager to share their stories and experience.
For a twist one of them has a mean streak and decides to prank him by stealing his silver and having him perform with them to give it back. If you want nasty instead of mean, one of them steals his silver and doesnt give it back at all.
Another possible story element would be to meet an ala robin hood band. Initially he is captured but when they realise he is not a fat cat priest they let him go and escort him part of the way. They too can offer advice on the lay of the land, the political situation etc. Maybe he even gets one of them to be his guide...
This has a follow up impact that this person is an outlaw... so by arriving in the city this person is discovered and captured. The PC will be torn between helping the man who guided him (and maybe even fought with him in a random encounter) or upholding the law of the land etc...
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Post by CreativeCowboy on May 30, 2013 1:46:23 GMT -8
Yes, those are good ideas for me to flesh out. Thank you. Up until now all I had was a Panamon Creel type uber NPC (players do not die in a Blue Book) as guide and a vague notion of some foreshadowing using the pass in the foothills as a position to observe a Hobgoblin mercenary unit headed east. Creel would leave the PC on the main road in Celene and we handwave the Blue Book from there.
I let the players create whatever character they choose without my interference munchkin kindly suggestions so their concepts are whole cloth. He has access to the whole outlay of 1st level spells but has chosen to "prepare" (since he has no deity to ask) for the Purify of Food and Drink. Reasonable since he is on a quest.
He can heal once a day instead, of course.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2013 4:47:33 GMT -8
I'm curious what the rules for magic are in your world. You say he has access to one of two spells, either Purify or healing. Yet he has no deity, so as a cleric how is he getting this magic? This isn't a system question, in the story of your world how do clerics get their spells if not from their deity?
Outside of that for some story ideas I might throw a moral conundrum at him by setting up a point where he encounters a poor family desperately in need of food. He is then torn between keeping his silver for his own needs or giving some to the family so they can buy food.
And one thing I personally would stay away from are Uber NPCs. Anytime the NPC guide is stronger then the player you are getting into dangerous territory in my experience. Better to simply avoid the potential for combat encounters then put a NPC with the player who is going to do all the work. It takes the fun for success away from them and thus dampens the experience as a whole.
Beyond that though I really don't have enough information about the player or the character to give any better advice.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on May 30, 2013 7:15:55 GMT -8
I'm curious what the rules for magic are in your world. You say he has access to one of two spells, either Purify or healing. Yet he has no deity, so as a cleric how is he getting this magic? This isn't a system question, in the story of your world how do clerics get their spells if not from their deity? Outside of that for some story ideas I might throw a moral conundrum at him by setting up a point where he encounters a poor family desperately in need of food. He is then torn between keeping his silver for his own needs or giving some to the family so they can buy food. And one thing I personally would stay away from are Uber NPCs. Anytime the NPC guide is stronger then the player you are getting into dangerous territory in my experience. Better to simply avoid the potential for combat encounters then put a NPC with the player who is going to do all the work. It takes the fun for success away from them and thus dampens the experience as a whole. Beyond that though I really don't have enough information about the player or the character to give any better advice. The rules are the same as written. Some players are uncomfortable playing a God fearing Cleric because god is not part of their (player) beliefs. I have another Cleric played with a deity. So I am interested in the relationship the two players will develop through the fiction of the game. I would hope some evangelical propaganda will cross the table from both sides of the coin. For players uncomfortable playing a Cleric under a deity, I take the Cosmic Consciousness and a Jungian theory of magick as spiritual force in place of "G_d" and introduce a "system of worship" similar to Masonic asterism, or Kabbalah, that involves codes of conduct and allegories of self-improvement in an explanation of attainable perfection for every man under the guidance of a Master. This is a secular Church close to a French model of Masonry (rather than the Free and Accepted, which has the requirement of belief in a God). So, the short answer, it works the same but in meditation rather than prayer and without visions of an external God. "Just as God is immanent in His creation and constantly bringing the world towards its ultimate perfection, humanity's true purpose is to do the same. When we connect our will to God's will, our potential for transforming the world into a heavenly Malchut (Kingdom) is unlimited." I just take out God from this and connect it to the Cosmic Unconsciousness. In game mechanics it works the same way as divine magic. The player created a "holy symbol" (and from that a church) involved in music. I might introduce a sigil of a Tuning Fork onto his robes. His holy symbol is a solid silver headband engraved with musical notes. When he uses it he takes it off his head and holds it so it frames his face. He utters the "divine" commands through it. I like to emphasize this is entirely the player's creation with only "rules" guidance from me. I presented a list of divine spells and he chose Purify... as the one to meditate on for the day, bringing it into his consciousness through a morning ritual that Clerics with a diety would term prayer. The only lasting benefit of the uber NPC, in my case, is in the long game. Since only henchmen and PCs increase in level, I will opt for a legend (level 5). Of course, he can supply world information because he's a known adventurer and fend off danger in the Blue Book. And since he is a local celebrity, should the player mention this NPC as a back-story to the other players (as I hope), the NPC can become a worthwhile party contact later in the campaign. Being a "name" also makes the NPC easier to find should they seek him out. Since the player cannot die and is using this (Blue Book) game as training wheels, there is no chance of risk. I roll in the open, which can be dangerous to the player in the open country. A group of mummers and this guy should do the trick, although I have some misgivings about surrounding the player with too many performances played by myself. Better the player view interaction as a one-to-one concept because that will be how he relates best to the table. Typically I should just be the background players.
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Post by Arcona on May 30, 2013 7:30:35 GMT -8
As the DM you are very much in the foreground.
While interaction between PCs is core in any RPG it is the DM that represents the world... so you are the world and all the people in it. Seeing as you dont plan to have a combaty campaign you will often have to run a whole host of characters at the same time. Every patron in a tavern, every member of court in court etc etc...
Also, I am still confused by the game you are running. Do clerics not have domains (they can choose them even without a deity) in your game? Also does he only have 1 single spell per day? Isnt that very very limiting?
And sure I agree that you shouldnt overmunchin him but as the DM that knows what will happen down the line you can offer advices to a new joiner. He doesnt know probably that an average opponent will hit him 50% of the time and do almost a killing blow (hence the need for more healing magic or more protective magic) but you do!
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Post by CreativeCowboy on May 30, 2013 7:54:21 GMT -8
As the DM you are very much in the foreground. While interaction between PCs is core in any RPG it is the DM that represents the world... so you are the world and all the people in it. Seeing as you dont plan to have a combaty campaign you will often have to run a whole host of characters at the same time. Every patron in a tavern, every member of court in court etc etc... Also, I am still confused by the game you are running. Do clerics not have domains (they can choose them even without a deity) in your game? Also does he only have 1 single spell per day? Isnt that very very limiting? And sure I agree that you shouldnt overmunchin him but as the DM that knows what will happen down the line you can offer advices to a new joiner. He doesnt know probably that an average opponent will hit him 50% of the time and do almost a killing blow (hence the need for more healing magic or more protective magic) but you do! GM = System; = Trust me. That's my system. I do hang it on AD&D 1e mechanics. So in terms of AD&D 1e magic mechanics, all is correct including the one spell. As is the 3D in a row character generation. (Very anti-munchkin) I certainly believe the DM should be in the background (as much as possible). The foreground is for the players. Basically this is something I wrote about on the topic: Can a GMPC Ever Be Done Right. The only time a DM should find himself in the foreground is when there is a Big Bad menace to play. But that also gets close to railroad, though it can be unavoidable if it impacts the player due to story. For example, as part of consequence: steal a NPC's wife and the NPC will come into the foreground to challenge the thief. For example as part of story: the local evil threatens everyone including the PCs, coming into the foreground (through his henchmen maybe) and this might force the players to confront an evil they might otherwise choose to by-pass. We play a political game - that is my formal social contract. This means, at some point, the PCs will face a background player who has come into the foreground. So I drop bits of data into the build up to this so the players have something to play against. Now I need to get myself together. The player is on his way.
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Post by Kainguru on May 30, 2013 11:01:56 GMT -8
I think nontheist rather than agnostic is more accurate . . . A nontheist will argue, consider and, at times, try to reject the importance of a 'God' in spiritual life . . . An agnostic just doesn't care or have an interest in the spiritual at all. In world where Gods provably exist you can't have an atheist though it'd be fun - spells granted by the power human belief in itself. Aaron
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Post by Arcona on May 30, 2013 12:31:14 GMT -8
I recall in 2nd edition the differentiation between Clerics and Clerics of Specific Mythoi. An atheist cleric is kinda weird... maybe the Urpriest from Complete Divine comes close (someone who steals divine magic from the Gods). As for your system CC I dont see what is the point of being so restrictive. With 3d6 in standard order your are heavily handicapping and pigeonholing your players. If someone wants to play someone smart he cant do so when the dice for intelligence give him a 1 and 2 and 3... same applies for any vision a player has for a character. Thats not to say that I need straight 18s to fulfil my dreams... I go around life with mostly 10s I guess... maybe a 12 and a 9 thrown in... but adventurers are supposed to be the 1 in a 1000 kind of person, exceptional in every way... Still, your game, your players and if they like it that way you are golden
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Post by Kainguru on May 30, 2013 12:58:17 GMT -8
He's not an atheist - agnostics and nontheists aren't atheists: they are a very separate and distinct paradigm. An agnostic doesn't care if God exists, the question is never asked or the answer is I don't know. A nontheist starts from the position of 'not knowing' accepts the condition that one cannot 'know the unknowable' but still asks or considers the question 'does God exist?' 'if it does exist what is God and how can that be reconciliated with rationale thought supporting the opposite contention (and vice versa)' Aaron
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Post by CreativeCowboy on May 30, 2013 14:07:45 GMT -8
Success! And stories to add to the group collective from a two month journey. Started with a hour-by-hour accounting of the player's typical last day at his monastery before being approached by his senior, Maestro, to undertake the journey. It began aboard a pirate ship to Gransul in Keoland. The player then bartered his way across land from there in the company of Panamon Creel. Towards the end of the journey through the foothills they met a force of 500 Hobgoblins and Gnolls, were attacked by a rearguard of 4 Kobolds - the player commanding one and braining the other with a stone.
But the one commanded was told to flee and Creel chased after him. The player continued the journey without the NPC, finally reaching the point where the other players are gathered in time for Saturday's game.
Lots of data provided on Hold of the Sea Princes, Keoland and the military situation in the south of Celene. Player had a good time. Played until 23:30.
The system conforms to whatever the player wants without getting munchkiny because there is nothing but the Ability Score to get munchkiny about. (Well, there are the Monty Haul dungeons but that's a DM problem not a player problem.) That's why I like it.
Also, players are not expected to conform or be restricted by their character sheet - itself just a resume of statistics. The Cleric has a 10% chance of spell failure due to low Wisdom. This does not mean he should not try to cast but 9/10 spells. That 10% mechanic is enough of a burden on the player. I do not need him to act foolish as well.... that would not encourage him to contribute in a party role.
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Post by Arcona on May 30, 2013 21:38:50 GMT -8
I realise that... even people with disabilities try and succeed... look at the special olympics for example.
BUT if I had rolled a 3 a 2 and 1 for my Intelligence (i.e Intelligence 6) my character has the intelligence of a troll. To come up with brilliant plans and strategies would then be metagaming because my character cant do that. He has the same intelligence as Troll... the fantasy genres dumb creature that gets tricked by the PCs.
In any case, glad to hear the session went well.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on May 30, 2013 23:09:41 GMT -8
Well, trolls do not often associate with others of a higher intelligence that, when working together, can save a good idea from poor execution. Working together is the power of a group of PCs. Also, Chaotic Evil (Anarchist Selfish) trolls lack the humility to work together for any length of time.
It is not the player's ideas that get penalized by bad luck (low ability scores feeding into low statistical probabilities of success) at my table; it's the execution of those ideas. The world is populated by many good ideas that utterly fail upon execution.
The new player infuses music into his concept of a Cleric and sang a children's nursery rhythm in Dutch as part of his game. At the interview, he imagined his character with a flute that played itself when a breeze was present and he was using this (like a Bard) to capture people’s imagination. At one point he entered an inn in Gradsul, Keoland, with the idea to make money from a crowd to at least afford a night’s sleep and food. He sang hoping to charm the crowd (I am using English here not rules-speak) and tried to teach someone, the only armed person in the inn, the song by writing it out in Keoish but he discovered this person could not read and was parroting the song. The player’s song was very nice – so there I was trying to repeat the Dutch words singing the song, and slipping in the data that the NPC was not tracking the words with his eyes. (information: illiterate NPC). That’s when the NPC, a little self-consciously and not to be outdone, started teaching a song version of The Miller’s Tale he knew to the player; a favourite song among the locals. All the Keoland folk got in on that. When the pirates the player had travelled with entered the inn, and were upset with the Keoland song, a language not all of them knew, they started singing their songs of reaving the coastline of Keoland with the might of their navy. A fight broke out.
The player and the armed drunken singer left the inn without their hat. The introduction of Panamon Creel.
Now all of that is just to say the player is not a Bard but I shared his imagination with him and assisted him with the NPC singing local favourites. In my mind, this would build up like two soccer team hooligans leading to the fight, which it did. I rolled reaction rolls to guide me but the fight, once all the elements were there, was unsurprising. Of course, a Bard would have had some better chance. However, the player progressed the story (and I slipped in my uber NPC at that stage) and he managed to share food and accommodation out of the rain (random weather-die roll) before setting off the next morning. He even tied up a loose end in the city by returning to the family (brother-in-law of the inn keeper) that offered to sell him bed & breakfast the previous night performing the Purify Food and Drink spell successfully on bad venison after having failed at it the first time.
Again, my thinking is the execution in game is the risk for dice to reason and not the player’s idea. Life is full of idiot savants and I have had my moments in that spotlight too.
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