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Post by kaitoujuliet on Jul 3, 2013 7:18:45 GMT -8
And yes, I'll back up @ jimto. Bennies suck. So what is your beef with bennies exactly?? I think bennies suck too. The points in favor of them on the podcast were mostly about how they can be used, completely handwaving the question of the hoops you have to jump through to get them. Amusingly, the latest Knights of the Dinner Table webstrip is about player agency versus game mechanics: www.kodtweb.com/2013/07/03/your-lips-say-no-but-the-numbers-say-yes/
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jul 3, 2013 9:13:15 GMT -8
This is what I give bennies for: Player JournalBecause this player created this new aspect to his backstory and put it on our Obsidian Portal page, this player will now begin our next session with three re-rolls. Two for himself and one to give to another player...(helps keep the PvP fuckers I call my friends down to a dull roar). Having these re-rolls enables that player to push the dramatic with less concern for a dreaded 1. And now I have several new potential NPCs, story lines to run with and increased characterization of one of the PCs in my game. That all happened away from the table. With this group getting to meet once a week but only having 2-3 hour games this has really helped increase the richness of our story. But, the idea of stopping a game mid action and saying "Hey that thing you did right there...that thing that you just did...that was really great...here have this cookie!" Immediately my bastard friends will say, "Well how's come I didna git a cookie for that thing that I did..." FORGET THAT SHIT! I should probably stop going on about this now. I just haven't heard anyone else giving bennies out like this but I hear folks complaining about 1) My players never read the backstory stuff and don't participate in the game enough 2) I hate having to remember to award bennies. Ok, I'm done. *runs back* I think I'll probably use this technique for my Jackercon games. The joy of having a virtual con will be pre-gen characters can be selected before the players ever get to the table, the backstory can be created, and some understanding of the base plot can be given. So, our four hour session will be MOSTLY game. With a few minutes for coffee and urination.
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Post by Kainguru on Jul 4, 2013 13:08:48 GMT -8
Gah how could I forget: Guys: YOU CAN DO MAGIC IN TRAVELLER. Mongoose Traveller has the rules with 'official sanction' in both the Judge Dredd and the Strontium Dog Supplements. It's naughty but I'll send an extract from my pdf's on request. Just a single chapter mind not the whole kit and kaboodle (though the PDFs are dirt cheap on DriveTHRU) Aaron.
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jpk
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 58
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Post by jpk on Jul 4, 2013 21:48:59 GMT -8
I think bennies suck too. The points in favor of them on the podcast were mostly about how they can be used, completely handwaving the question of the hoops you have to jump through to get them. Seriously? The "hoops"? You can just hand out the three at the beginning of the session and stop right there if you like. As long as everyone knows what the expectation is, you're good.
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Post by guitarspider on Jul 5, 2013 1:54:48 GMT -8
Are bennies going to be the new crunch/ac?
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maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
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HJRP1004
Jul 5, 2013 2:43:50 GMT -8
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Post by maxinstuff on Jul 5, 2013 2:43:50 GMT -8
Are bennies going to be the new crunch/ac? I'll play. FUCK BENNIES THEY ARE FOR MIN MAXING CUNTS!
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Post by guitarspider on Jul 5, 2013 6:09:13 GMT -8
Are bennies going to be the new crunch/ac? I'll play. FUCK BENNIES THEY ARE FOR MIN MAXING CUNTS! Nice. I'll raise you a: FUCK OFF RPG TYRANT!!! We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all PCs are created equal, that they are endowed by their player with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are HP, player agency, and the FUCKING PURSUIT OF BENNIES. *gets musket*
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Post by kaitoujuliet on Jul 5, 2013 8:57:27 GMT -8
I think bennies suck too. The points in favor of them on the podcast were mostly about how they can be used, completely handwaving the question of the hoops you have to jump through to get them. Seriously? The "hoops"? Yes, seriously. Are you claiming there are not "hoops"? I can if I'm the GM, but not if I'm a player. You act like everyone always knows what the expectations are, and that the expectations are easy to meet on command.
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Post by Stu Venable on Jul 5, 2013 9:52:26 GMT -8
I have, over time, come to the conclusion that I'm not much of a fan of bennies either.
I understand their purpose and the philosophy behind adding them, and I'll continue using them when I run SW, because their presence is assumed in the balance of the game.
But for everything else, I'm of the opinion that games aren't better for them.
It takes my attention away from GMing, because I have to hand out cookies, and make sure I'm being fair and consistent.
Also, as Stork has pointed out, a bennies system robs the dice of their power to sway the story in unexpected ways.
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jpk
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 58
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Post by jpk on Jul 5, 2013 13:58:57 GMT -8
Yes, seriously. Are you claiming there are not "hoops"? Well, yes and no. There are no hoops ensconced in the system itself, but a GM can certainly put some up. More on that below. I can if I'm the GM, but not if I'm a player. Totally fair. Again, more on that below. You act like everyone always knows what the expectations are, and that the expectations are easy to meet on command. Honestly, it doesn't sound like you've got a problem with bennies. It sounds like you've got a problem with douchy GMs who operate with unclear or random expectations. And, I believe, rightly so. Those guys don't really deserve players, and they're likely to be that way in systems with or without bennies. But we all have different experiences. Sorry yours have sucked. (As flip as that may sound, I'm truly sincere.)
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jpk
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 58
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Post by jpk on Jul 5, 2013 14:05:04 GMT -8
It takes my attention away from GMing, because I have to hand out cookies, and make sure I'm being fair and consistent. No, you don't. You can, or you could just hand out the starting quota (be that three, or more or less to flavor your game as you see fit) and be done with it. No distraction. No fair. No consistency. Just done. If you want more on a consistent basis, pass out a benny to all the players when a joker's dealt. At cons, I go with a benny to all the players and me as the GM when a joker pops up. Again, fair, consistent, no real effort. Like pretty much every other aspect of gaming, it comes down to common expectations between GMs and players. Also, as Stork has pointed out, a bennies system robs the dice of their power to sway the story in unexpected ways. You're playing L5R and are a known fan of GURPS (not that there's anything wrong with that). Both of those systems include advantages that allow for a limited number of rerolls per session. Do you disallow those advantages? If not, where's the big difference? No, honestly. I don't see the big shift. Then again, I'm comfortable with the AC abstraction, and may thereby lose all credibility ever. Poof.
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Post by Stu Venable on Jul 5, 2013 14:37:20 GMT -8
The GURPS rule is optional, and I've only used it once. I had a GM in a game years ago who implemented something like it long before it was written down. The Void rule in L5R doesn't allow for re-rolls. It allows for a bit of damage reduction, skill bonuses, but not re-rolls, IIRC.
I'm one of those douchey DMs who doesn't deserve players, because I don't apply bennies consistently. Not out of malice, mind you, but my limited mental bandwidth is busy on other GMing tasks.
If misapplying bennies makes me a bad GM, so be it.
And don't worry about the AC thing. I don't judge people by the mechanics they like or dislike.
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jpk
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 58
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Post by jpk on Jul 5, 2013 17:05:10 GMT -8
I'm one of those douchey DMs who doesn't deserve players, because I don't apply bennies consistently. You know, when you just plain ol' quote me like that, I sound really unreasonable and excessively strident. Dang.
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Post by ericfromnj on Jul 6, 2013 16:44:05 GMT -8
Yes, seriously. Are you claiming there are not "hoops"? I can if I'm the GM, but not if I'm a player. You act like everyone always knows what the expectations are, and that the expectations are easy to meet on command. I think it really depends on the GM. I love bennies and have never jumped through hoops to give them or get them, though I could picture where that could happen. OMG am I agreeing with GM = System thinking about this?
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maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
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HJRP1004
Jul 6, 2013 18:48:00 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by maxinstuff on Jul 6, 2013 18:48:00 GMT -8
Yes, seriously. Are you claiming there are not "hoops"? I can if I'm the GM, but not if Im a player. You act like everyone always knows what the expectations are, and that the expectations are easy to meet on command. I think it really depends on the GM. I love bennies and have never jumped through hoops to give them or get them, though I could picture where that could happen. OMG am I agreeing with GM = System thinking about this? No - it is simply that the system, as written, places such subjective requirements on an in game benefit that GM's are having to step in and clarify to ensure consistency. This is a system shortcoming that people are house-ruling. In this respect SW is very much a beer and pretzels affair.
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