merryprankster
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Post by merryprankster on Jul 17, 2013 15:27:43 GMT -8
Agreed! The forum should definitely determine Honor gain/loss!
+1 for Stork losing honor for hiding in the shadows with the Crab.
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Post by stork on Jul 17, 2013 16:21:33 GMT -8
“All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.” ― Sun Tzu, Sun-Tzu: The Art of Warfare
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jul 17, 2013 18:32:41 GMT -8
Well played CRANE! But we'll be listening...oh yes we shall be listening! (I think Stork's character has exhibited such 'archer' DPS tendencies in the past. While I know this may be a popular strategy to use in other games (DnD, GURPS, Savage Worlds, Storm Bringer ). I think for most bushi to use such tactics is questionable ? Although I have NO where near the depth of knowledge of Sir Guido, Northman, and other die hard, long term L5R players. I just like the idea of throwing PCs to the Lions based upon the Actual Play, and then the listeners actually getting to have an impact on the game. So, -2 Honor I stand by it! .
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Post by gandalftheplaid on Jul 17, 2013 20:48:03 GMT -8
“All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.” ― Sun Tzu, Sun-Tzu: The Art of Warfare www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=owgu_DxlwVU#t=170s
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maxinstuff
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Post by maxinstuff on Jul 17, 2013 21:11:06 GMT -8
The winner is the one who is best at being dishonourable without getting caught - or at least making sure those who do know about it are murdered in the face.
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tyler
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 226
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Post by tyler on Jul 17, 2013 23:59:24 GMT -8
I think their honor gain/loss should be determined by the reaction of the forum! I would actually be okay with this, provided it were like a tribunal, and not just "every jackass who thinks stork should lose honor gets his wish".
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Post by bloodsparrow on Jul 18, 2013 3:12:35 GMT -8
I think you guys just like ragging on Stork.
Honor doesn't mean throwing your life away needlessly and depriving your master of your skills and talents.
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Post by joecrak on Jul 18, 2013 3:45:23 GMT -8
I agree to bloodsparrows point, but as far as I'm aware Stork was employing a method generally looked down upon by all but the Doji Scouts, who freely admit they do the dishonorable acts so the rest of the crane do not have to.
I say -1 point, but no public apology, as a public apology would be more shameful. A loss in honor is something private only his character would know about.
And I totally love the tribunal idea, but one thing that migr make it easier/better for the forum is a running thread listing each characters current honor and glory rank; that way we can nominate them under the minor/major and then stu can assign the actual point loss; unless he wants us to do that.
The point being the higher the rank the greater the loss or lower the rank the greater the gain.
Thoughts?
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Post by Gillsing on Jul 18, 2013 3:53:45 GMT -8
I don't have any real insight into the L5R honour system, but I just found this: While Bushido is a guide to the proper conduct of a warrior, is must be remembered that bushido is very different from western chivalry. When at war, a warrior does nearly anything to win. Sneak attacks, stealthy harassment, and dispatching spies are all standard fare. Bushido can be shockingly pragmatic. A general may yield certain advantages to his enemy, but this isn't to make a battle more "fair", but to show how truly superior his forces are.So hiding in the bushes in anticipation of a potential conflict doesn't seem the least bit dishonourable to me. And judging by the above, it looks like the group would even be able to wage a guerilla war on the usurpers of the valley without having to enter into open battle where they'd be outnumbered. Though I suppose it might be dishonourable to attack without a formal declaration/ultimatum?
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Post by joecrak on Jul 18, 2013 4:36:54 GMT -8
A good point, but stealth while a low skill is specifically stated as not causing a loss in honor, using it for an ambush however does cause a loss of honor, certain schools provide exceptions to this.
To ask a semi related question, lets say the kami lied to kimmy and told her there was no taint, or she failed to communicate with them, would they then have attacked? Or say the kami told them there was no taint and that was true, the kuni were mistaken? Would they have attacked?
The words of the kami can not be believed as only the shugenja can hear them, and can change their words. And the only evidence that matters most in rokugan is eye witness testimony.
Luckily for our heroes the kami told kimmy there was taint to avoid unneeded bloodshed.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on Jul 18, 2013 5:48:42 GMT -8
You also have to look at it the way the clan would look at it as well. The Lion are known for doing whatever it takes to get the job done militarily so a little skulking isn't out of the question. The Crane however... they are a bit full of themselves and find themselves above it all so sneaking for them is worse than most.
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Post by bloodsparrow on Jul 18, 2013 5:50:00 GMT -8
A good point, but stealth while a low skill is specifically stated as not causing a loss in honor, using it for an ambush however does cause a loss of honor, certain schools provide exceptions to this. He was hiding in anticipation of a possible attack against his friends, not laying in wait to attack unsuspecting people going about their business without warning.
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Post by joecrak on Jul 18, 2013 6:36:50 GMT -8
A good point, but stealth while a low skill is specifically stated as not causing a loss in honor, using it for an ambush however does cause a loss of honor, certain schools provide exceptions to this.[\quote] He was hiding in anticipation of a possible attack against his friends, not laying in wait to attack unsuspecting people going about their business without warning. Well I saw it the opposite of you, to me it looked like he was getting ready to ambush the crab upon being given the word. Though I have been swayed in regards to the honor loss, while I think he was setting up for an ambush h never did ambush anyone, and intention is nothing without action.
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jul 18, 2013 7:52:55 GMT -8
This has a lovely sentencing of General Zod in Superman 2 feel to it. Disembodied avatars discussing the fate of the accused. More importantly its nice to hear our L5R guru's chime in with their opinions as these are the personal issues I have with the game. Not problems just difficulty understanding how they translate into action. What truly involves honor loss vs actions that can be justified through some aspect of bushido? I think it was also the reason the game appealed to me; dealing with convoluted justifications for moral dilemmas.
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jul 18, 2013 7:53:43 GMT -8
This has a lovely sentencing of General Zod in Superman 2 feel to it. Disembodied avatars discussing the fate of the accused. More importantly its nice to hear our L5R guru's chime in with their opinions as these are the personal issues I have with the game. Not problems just difficulty understanding how they translate into action. What truly involves honor loss vs actions that can be justified through some aspect of bushido? I think it was also the reason the game appealed to me; dealing with convoluted justifications for moral dilemmas. So ok, no public apology for Stork's character. But 100 years in the phantom zone.
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