kroh
Supporter
Posts: 132
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Post by kroh on Aug 6, 2014 12:02:02 GMT -8
I have to say, I was very impressed with the response to the email about ditching the irksome gamer that won't change their irk. While a lot of folks would have come right out and said "Get the torches and the pitchforks honey... we got ourselves another one!", the hosts were all about taking another road with that. I really liked the suggestion of either working them out of the game or just asking them to leave without drama.
I also agree that emails should be culled. If they get read... groovy. But with as big as the show has become, folks are probably sending in tons of emails. It wouldn't be bad if they were in dear Stu-bby format with a quick question, but there has been a string of, let me give you my backstory, which has become the new, let me tell you about my character.
Since the Guys and Gals do this on their own time and dime, brevity for the sake of expediency would not be a bad thing on our part, as fans.
Best Regards, Walt
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Post by joecrak on Aug 7, 2014 4:17:50 GMT -8
Stu Venable in regards to the trouble reading the Apocalypse World book, I had the same problem. But I found the Dungeon World and MonsterHearts book to be much easier to understand and read.
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outofprintGM
Apprentice Douchebag
one man's wilderness is another man's playground
Posts: 59
Preferred Game Systems: anything thts fun for the group to play
Currently Playing: D&D5E, Blood of Heroes, FFG Star Wars,
Currently Running: Blood of Heroes, Night Black Agents, Pathfinder, Rolmaster,FFG Star Wars, Monster of the week,
Favorite Species of Monkey: spider monkey
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Post by outofprintGM on Aug 7, 2014 5:50:01 GMT -8
first i would like to say thanks to the Happy jackers for reading my email, bad spelling and all as a foot note to the gaming nightmare there was only 4 players me and the two who left for the pub and the 17 year old, i have heard roamers from other players over the years and he is just as weird now as then a foot note to the Meta-Dick-Gamer his girlfriend (player C (for cutie) was playing the game she was a druid, and the classes were not the bone of contention, out paths have crossed at the local pub and i just treat him with polite indifference.
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Post by uselesstriviaman on Aug 7, 2014 13:03:47 GMT -8
RE: podcast catchers: I've never used Stitcher, so I'm not exactly sure what y'all are referring to with the interruptions. When I first started listening to podcasts, a buddy recommended one called Podkicker. I've been using it ever since. No interruptions, no commercials. I've been very happy with it for years now.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Aug 7, 2014 13:37:05 GMT -8
I know I was one of those four emails that arrived on that Friday Stu, sorry. But the next session of my game isn't until Tuesday, so if it makes the cut this episode, I'd be grateful. It's a genuine problem!
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d47
Journeyman Douchebag
RPG of Choice: Metagaming Melee
Posts: 194
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Post by d47 on Aug 7, 2014 22:59:08 GMT -8
RE: podcast catchers: I've never used Stitcher, so I'm not exactly sure what y'all are referring to with the interruptions. When I first started listening to podcasts, a buddy recommended one called Podkicker. I've been using it ever since. No interruptions, no commercials. I've been very happy with it for years now. On iPhone, I like PodCruncher quite a bit. I have set to download podcasts when I am on wifi to keep my cellular usage low. It usually does a great job and lets me access old episodes for downloading easily. (Once upon a time, I downloaded podcasts using iTunes and they synced easily and accurately with my iPod, but then Apple decided that we all needed to have our podcasts separated from our music and completely ruined a good set up.)
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wellmoustachioed
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 23
Preferred Game Systems: Trail of Cthulhu, FATE, Dungeon World
Currently Playing: Diaspora in Fate Core
Currently Running: Trail of Cthulhu
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
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Post by wellmoustachioed on Aug 8, 2014 9:10:17 GMT -8
Stu Venable in regards to the trouble reading the Apocalypse World book, I had the same problem. But I found the Dungeon World and MonsterHearts book to be much easier to understand and read. Same here. I love the system and the drama it encourages, but the writing of the AW book really put me off.
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Post by SavageCheerleader on Aug 8, 2014 11:15:47 GMT -8
So, no surprise I suppose, but I am pretty shocked that adults are willing to duck out of a simple confrontation like 8th graders. "I'll just change the day we play so it all just works itself out". That is bullshit to do to someone, especially if you consider yourself an adult. I am not saying to flip tables and start throat punching people, but you owe it to everyone involved to say, "this is not working out for us, all apologies but we cannot ask you back to the table". If you get drama from that, handle it like a fucking adult, not a cowardly, simpering child. I do not care how old you are, it needs to be handled correctly. I am 42, professional military, family of four, and some very bad luck with one of our children (JiB knows the full details if Stu or Stork want/need to know), and I still try to maintain normalcy and be an adult. There are simply no good excuses for ducking someone in life. For those hard cases, there are always restraining orders. And guns (just cleaning one in front of someone sets a tone some times). /acerbic off Otherwise, this is what you are doing: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7dROcm_SbY
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Post by Stu Venable on Aug 8, 2014 11:31:11 GMT -8
I'm really trying to tone down my rhetoric, as I get pissed off when I get blatantly insulted like that...
I don't relish the opportunity to start a confrontation when one isn't necessary.
Maybe this makes me a pansy in your eyes, and that's fine.
Case in point: if I reacted like you, I would have banned you from the forum right now.
Instead, I'll take the high road and act like an 8th grader, I suppose.
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Post by Kainguru on Aug 8, 2014 13:26:06 GMT -8
D. Adams Aaron
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Aug 8, 2014 14:07:39 GMT -8
I have a true story about a Polish Director of Sales who had to let go a percentage of his local staff (fire them) after the cost-cutting directive from Switzerland was relayed to the foreign General Manager who then called an executive meeting and told the Sales Director to pick the people to fire. The Polish Financial Director was there also because it involved his budget due to severance. They were able to make (or, as the French say, take) the decision.
So half a year, later the General Manager has to let go the Sales Director. It seems, after he fired the people, those people set up a subcontracting company and he hired that company to do the job the employees were fired for. That is the way the culture works in Poland.
Now, why do I mention the nationality of the people in the story? Because to understand the story there is a need to understand the clash of culture evident in it. Culture is not just of a nation, as in the example above, but a gamer culture as in this example: #NotAllRolePlayers: A History of Rapey Dungeon Masters This article was also mentioned by one of the guests in the podcast – and I won’t address it, except as reference for its wider misanthropic context, or else I will go off on a related tangent. There are some fights you have to stand up for or you suffer the bad associations that spoil useful pastime reputations and get a little leaven to spoil your group game. When the table needs to fill one more seat, often times that’s the seat where anyone who takes it can do no wrong because a game is better than no game logic. It is also important to note our hobby can be played like a board game, except when it is played more social. This is when the system matters, because it informs and tell the players how to play (even sexual moves – as it was pointed out in this podcast). I am a believer in the players informing the system… but I will stay away from the **CENSORED**, except to point out there is a way to play D20 that is just as lethal as GURPS but requires the players’ social contract to do it. I can work with someone who does his or her job; knows the rules to near proficiency; and acts “professional” in his or her role. I have had to do so in the past at work. And I have played RPGs with this subset of persons who play at an arms’ length roll fest though I am in no way rules proficient myself. But I do not socialize with these persons, and such a game does not require it. However, when socialization skills are part of RPGs, as they are in my game, then that subset of the Sheldon Cooper type who just plays his or her character, even if he or she chooses to be of an opposite gender or even species, shines through loud and clear. He or she uses the roll fest to separate him- or herself from his or her player character, and group socializing comes down to a result on a die roll. Is he or she an asshole or merely at the wrong table? Can you be at the wrong table and not be an asshole if the any game is a good game at every game? The problem is when RPGs are played with their social component intact. Then the group, as SavageCheerleader has said, has to "nut up" for that to work properly. It has to be part of the culture. And (as I extrapolate from my experience) professional roll players have a difficult time to understand that, which social role-players do more easily grok. I could be wrong – I expect the local trolls to shout me down given their history documented in the last two weeks of the Shout Box below – but a valid distinction to make is that an Internet forum is not the same as the gaming group host's living room. In the end, do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. A game that "don't reject anyone" where a player or players can loosen their inhibitions and blame any anti-social act on their character's story is going to attract those folks. If the community does not gate keep, those people are going to find a home. It's not rocket science. I think it would be worthy to add to that: Love is the law, but love under will. YMMV.
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Post by uselesstriviaman on Aug 8, 2014 17:52:58 GMT -8
I have to agree with outofprintDM and Stu. I don't think that taking the high road and avoiding drama - in a completely non-confrontational manner - is a childish act in any way.
There are times when calling out someone's bullshit is absolutely justified. That horror story is a perfect example of when saying "Dude, that shit you did is COMPLETELY unacceptable" isn't just okay, it's so extreme it's downright mandatory.
I've culled many players from my groups over the years, and I've done so in a non-confrontational manner every single time. No feelings were hurt, no unnecessary drama ensued, and we all went on our merry ways.
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Post by Stu Venable on Aug 9, 2014 0:01:02 GMT -8
CreativeCowboy : I don't thing the issue is whether or not a table needs to remove an "incompatible" player. I think we all agree that doing so is in the group and game's best interest if said player is causing the fun of everyone else to suffer. My point was that there are less aggressive ways of doing it. It is not necessary to say to the player, "we're kicking you out, and BTW, here are the 8 reasons why you suck." I'm assuming here that you've already sussed out that the player is just the wrong guy for the table and that you know the situation cannot be resolved. In other words, you know the problem player either can't or won't change. In such situations, passively removing the player is not a bad thing. Most of the time the player is going to know he or she has been excluded. Certainly they can come to you and ask why they were excluded. In my experience, however, that never happens. I've removed plenty of players that way. I've never been asked to explain myself. And quite frankly, such conversations probably would have caused bad blood or other ramifications to a larger social circle. People, in my experience, are perfectly capable of resolving such situations without verbally coming to blows. Certainly such unpleasant exchanges will happen, but I see no reason to seek them out. And quite frankly, my blood pressure and general health are better for it.
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Post by Kainguru on Aug 9, 2014 1:05:00 GMT -8
I'd just add that outofprintGM comes from Wakefield . . . the North of England. Things are such that the kind of confrontation advocated by some would probably have unfortunate ramifications far beyond the gaming table: having such close quartered populations etc avoiding someone you have decided to agree is incompatible with your mindset is less of an option. Ignoring one another is often the better course - somewhat polite exchanges when your paths cross but then you both carry on your own way. There are enough generational rivalries and 'anti-social behaviours' here already without adding more - for goodness sake there are still people on both sides of the Pennines who haven't forgiven the other side for The War of the Roses ('Don't wear a Red Rose in Yorkshire or a White Rose in Lancashire'). As to the likes of 'cleaning your gun to set the tone'?: that'd just get you arrested over here and, very probably for a military person, result in further disciplinary action from said military. Too often people outside of the UK mistake the need of it's residents for mutual tolerance as being submissive politeness. Aaron Allsorts of the Liquorice Variety
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Post by ayslyn on Aug 9, 2014 7:10:29 GMT -8
This isn't some sort of binary equation here. There are more than two options. It's not just "dodge em", or "be a dick!".
I've removed more than a few people from our games over the years. Try a simple "I'm sorry, but this just isn't working out."
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