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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Feb 22, 2016 8:40:36 GMT -8
I'm running the Necessary Evil: Breakout book right now and one of my characters chose to take Intangibility and Invisibility powers both with the "Always On" modifier. I've yet to work with him on the Trappings for the powers so it's not just as-is, but in that game setting how would you challenge a character like that who can't be seen or touched without significant modifiers?
The remainder of the points were spent on Super Skill to get Sorcery to d12+1 and the Super Sorcery power. So the character is an invisible, untouchable, super magic casting character.
I'm not wanting to veto the character outright, I just want to know how I could challenge a character legally built this way with the super powers rules.
Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 9:38:32 GMT -8
Neither the invisibility nor the intangibility power are eligible for the "always on" modifier, at least as written in the Necessary Evil book. Each power has the possible modifiers under their descriptions. Each power also costs 5 points, bringing the total to 10, not leaving enough for super socery of super skill without extra edges being used to up their super point pool.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 9:48:06 GMT -8
It can be argued that intangibility is impossible to have on all the time without the aid of other powers, which is why it is not a modifier that was allowed. If they are always intangible, the character would be unable to eat or drink. Without some means of locomotion (flight or levitaiton) they would phase through the floor and be unable to change elevation at all (no stairs, no ability to walk up an incline).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 10:03:34 GMT -8
Super sorcery also needs to be monitored as well. While it offers the versatility of using many powers, they are limited by what level of Super Sorcery they have (or how much backlash they are willing to risk). If they are only level 1 they are limited spells like "gifted, wall crawling, or earthquake". To be really effective they would need to invest enough points to be level 4 at least, which would allow them to cast more than one spell at a time, although a second level sorcerer could get by if they have other powers to fall back on.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Feb 22, 2016 10:09:30 GMT -8
The powers in the new Super Powers Companion supersede the Necessary Evil book now, so now they are eligible for "always on". The Breakout book has players start at Street Level and that means 30 (35 if you take an additional Major Hindrance) power points for powers, can't use more than 1/3 of the powers in any one given power. Although he did take the "Best there is" Edge (which I need to grill him about for some context) which allows for one power to have half the total power points.
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Post by ericfromnj on Feb 22, 2016 10:47:22 GMT -8
Character sounds broken to me...
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Post by shadrack on Feb 22, 2016 10:50:00 GMT -8
Seems like you would need to be fully in this plane of existence (not intangible) in order to cast spells that affect this plane.
Also, I don't think that there is any necessity for his spellcasting to be invisible. Perhaps his hands start glowing as he casts, or his eyes if he's scrying. A la Doctor Strange.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 10:53:15 GMT -8
Holy crap. I just took a gander at the new edition.....no sir, I don't like em. I just skimmed them but I can see a world of issues and possible game breaky type shenanigans. The power glut makes challenges difficult and you are going to be leveling metropolis every week just to keep them busy.
With this new information, I would still make them figure out a means of locomotion depending on their trappings. Have them be specific about their trappings as mist can be broken up by high winds or jets of water. If they are a spirit of some kind then perhaps iron or salt causes them harm. Do they still have a temperature? Are they cold? Psychic energies are always effective in dealing with the intangible as well as certain magic or energy attacks. Have them explain the food situation as well...they will either have to take a power to negate the sustenance issue or figure it out (they may be able to turn temporarily corporeal to eat, but can they maintain that form for it to digest?)
The invisibility is in levels but doesn't quite explain them. I guess it is how well you are able to blend in and leave no trace (from Predator to League of Extraordinary Gentleman). Use atmosphere to affect things; morning fog, busted fire hydrants, smoke, etc. Use area affects that do not require line of sight or a clear target.
Super sorcery is more clearly laid out but the drop in cost and added points make them pretty damn overpowered.
The major thing about this build is why bother adventuring? What is their goal? They are a villain in Necessary Evil so if you are damn near invincible why bother? was it revenge? Well the heroes are dead now so why help Earth? Was it riches? Why? You can't touch anything. Was it a cure? What if that was offered to them? Maybe their sidekick/companion nullified powers and allowed them to live like a regular person. What if they were gone? what if they came back? what if they were dead? What if a technological reason could be devised to cure them? Make them clearly define goals so that is where they will have an opportunity to role play and hopefully show that they are not just out to try and break the game.
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Post by stork on Feb 22, 2016 15:31:13 GMT -8
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Post by ilina on Feb 22, 2016 22:22:06 GMT -8
this is why intangibility and invisibility are more trouble than they are worth. they open up whole new cans of worms that kill your character.
just because you are intangible, doesn't mean you can fly and just because you ae invisible, doesn't mean other senses can't detect you. dogs are great for this. plus, his perpetual intangibility, screws over his super sorcery.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Feb 23, 2016 7:54:44 GMT -8
Yeah I had suggested that theme to him as well as Gentleman Ghost. The player is tweaking the character now mostly because he had no fun playing the character and the confusion with the party made things harder. So I think we might be on the right track for fixing things.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 23:10:35 GMT -8
Deadman is a good example of both powers but being supported by other powers.
Flight takes care of locomotion. Possession can make him temporarily tangible (using someone else but it works). Of course being dead means that he no longer requires sustenance (which would have to be purchased as another suite of powers).
Glad the problem is solving itself though.
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Post by savagedaddy on Feb 25, 2016 6:03:31 GMT -8
this is why intangibility and invisibility are more trouble than they are worth. they open up whole new cans of worms that kill your character. just because you are intangible, doesn't mean you can fly and just because you're invisible, doesn't mean other senses can't detect you. dogs are great for this. plus, his perpetual intangibility, screws over his super sorcery. I don't see any discussion of Trappings. Intangibility could come in the form of shadows, a swarm of insects, sparking electricity, or anything that explains "HOW" the character is Intangible. Of course, ghostly apparition is total acceptable. Limitations are built into the power description as it reads: "Intangibility makes the character unable to affect (or be affected by) physical and energy attacks or objects." They way that reads to me is that an intangible character can't pick up or manipulate physical objects or cast spells/powers that affect the physical world. Ilina's point about invisibility is well taken. An invisible (but not intangible) character can be easily spotted by a creature or device with infravision. They can still set off traps. Once again, the player should choose and describe the trapping that applies to invisibilty. For example, is a tech device? If so, it can be shorted out by an electrical strike or EMP weapon. I guess my point is, TRAPPINGS MATTER just as much as rules mechanics.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Feb 25, 2016 9:39:42 GMT -8
I guess my point is, TRAPPINGS MATTER just as much as rules mechanics. Right and I've stressed that with the player too. He's retooling the character now and thinking up how his "special artifact" makes these powers and how that is represented in the Trappings. On a side note, I saw how Trappings were done in the core book and how they can actually give bonuses to rolls. Is there a method to figuring that out or should the old "One good thing the power gives, one bad thing the power causes" method be applied?
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Mar 9, 2016 6:59:23 GMT -8
So we played another session and the player has chosen to use "Shadow Magic" as the basic trapping for how his powers work. He still has the run of the Super Powers book with Super Sorcery but all the spells have a splash of shadow as the trapping for how the power works. Shadows are at his command and has used the enemy's own shadow against them through the spells. Great, I'm for this change.
However, he is still reliant on being Invisible and Intangible even as shadow trapping powers and his explanation for it is that he becomes one with the shadows being cast by everything around him. Would you say that once they leave the protection of the shadows that their powers would not function due to the trapping? What about if someone flashes a big spotlight?
I ask because I want to come to the table with some logical explanations for common things that might happen. I don't want to straight up take someone's powers away just by using a flashlight and being that "Gotcha!" GM either.
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